In both private and business life, connections are important. These are things we can't go at alone. However, finding someone we can engage with who is like-minded and is trustworthy can be hard. In this week's episode we are joined by Sean Fergusson (co-founder of "FORE" business) shares with us how his community of 1600 members play "Guilt-free golf" which helps them build some of the best relationships in business in the comfort of a fun, relaxed environment.
You can’t build wealth alone. Connections are an important part of life, but when it comes to business and your own personal finances, you need to ensure that the people you engage with can be trusted, and ideally you want to establish a relationship whereby there can be an exchange of value, or a ‘win win’ for both parties. But how do you build great connections? We’ve all been to networking events where everyone is gathered in a room and left to their own devices to randomly bump into like-minded people but is that really the only way?
Today’s guest, Sean Fergusson, (co-founder of “FORE” Business), has built the world’s largest golf networking community – allowing their 1600 strong membership to play ‘guilt-free golf’ knowing that some of the best relationships in business can be built in the more relaxed environment of some of the finest golf courses in the world. Tune in to find out more!
Resources Mentioned In This Episode
>> ‘’FORE’’ Business – The world’s largest golf networking community
>> WT006: Using Wealth Dynamics To Find Your Personal Flow
>> Take the Wealth Dynamics Test
>> BBQ Networking Technique – Kevin Whelan
>> Join the WealthBuilders Academy
>> REGISTER HERE FOR FREE RESOURCES ACCESS
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Unknown Speaker 0:01
The purpose of wealth talk is to educate, inform and hopefully entertain you on the subject of building your wealth. Wealth builders recommends you should always take independent financial tax or legal advice before making any decisions around your finances.
Unknown Speaker 0:20
Welcome to Episode 130 of wealth talk. My name is Christian Rodwell, the membership director for wealth builders and I'm joined today by our founder Mr. Kevin Whalen. Hi, Kevin.
Unknown Speaker 0:28
Hello Cruz. Good to be with you again. As always,
Unknown Speaker 0:31
yeah. And you're fresh off the golf course this morning. I hear.
Unknown Speaker 0:35
Yes, I had a look. It was a beautiful day. And it was like Millionaire's golf. Mina buddy just decided to go and hit some balls we played on a lovely golf course. We enjoyed the greenery The scenery was better than walking the dog Chris, although sometimes walk in your golf clubs can be a little bit longer. Anyway, had a good game really enjoyed myself and very opposite, isn't it? Because we're talking to somebody about the combination of combining golf with business in a guilt free way. And I'm sure you'll hear that in, in the, in the words of our guest today.
Unknown Speaker 1:18
Absolutely. So our guest today is Sean Ferguson. He is the co founder of for business network, and Sean's great guy. And it really enjoyed the interview with Sean, he was actually out in America, and we're gonna hear from him really soon. But it's really kind of brought a new way to networking. And I think the timings just really perfect for this conversation because we were actually with 300 property investors just earlier this week, Kevin, which was at the equity Academy, Brooklyn's Grand Prix event, with Mark Stokes, and Nigel green, and all of the equity team. And we saw so many of our members think there's about 30, wealth builders, Academy members that came along to say hello, and yeah, just so great to be face to face again, with everyone.
Unknown Speaker 2:02
Why not just again, I mean, for some people, I'd never met them before. I'd only ever seen them from the neck up. And so which is great to see people in the flesh and, and to shake hands with people and so on and little cuddle from, from those who we built a particularly fond relationship with strangely over zoom. And that was that was fantastic and really enjoyed that. So yeah, I mean, it's it was networking on a, on a really big scale, for the first time in, I can't remember how long but what Shawn's got to share. And Shawn is just doing what you hear him he's a, he's a very passionate guy. And he says on his LinkedIn profile, he's an addicted introducer. What he means by that he's just so passionate about finding value for others. He's a selfless, caring kind of a guy and he brings some great wealth power rails, as all of our guests do, and we'll have a chance to debrief them below village rockers,
Unknown Speaker 3:04
we will indeed Okay, so let's tee off and head on to our conversation with Sean folks. John, welcome to wealth talk today. Thanks, Chris. And we were beaming across the Atlantic because you're in America and in fact, you were on one of the first planes from the UK to America this week, I believe. Yeah, all a bit crazy. I earned an I decided that I needed to get out here now and start, you know, creating what weird started in 2019. And with COVID and everything else we haven't been able to get over here really? So I was Yeah, I was the first virgin flight 830 out of T three Heathrow on Monday morning. And in fact, it was a job flight. Takeoff with BA on the other side of the runway as well. So helicopter was in the sky. And they were filming us as we were leaving Heathrow. I had no idea that was happening. And yeah, it was it was there was quite a party and quite a celebration. Really. It was almost quite emotional that we were able to go back over to America and start trading and seeing our friends again, you know? Yeah, no, leading the highlife. Sean and I'm looking forward to hearing about how you've grown your business with Aaron in today's conversation. And, of course, you are the co founder of for business. And for businesses, the world's largest golf networking community. I believe you've got over 100 groups and, you know, over 1000 members across the world, so it really, really good to know how did it all begin? Sean? Okay. So, I mean, I've always been I've always enjoyed networking. You know, from a very young age. I've always enjoyed meeting people understanding what they did in life, the challenges that they had. And I guess when I was really young, I didn't realize where my journey was going to take me but I just always enjoyed. I always, I always remember people's names, which always freaks them out. I've always done that from a very young age and I think You get to remember people's names when you really listen intensely and to what they do, and the information they share with you. And then when you see them a year later, and you pick up back on that conversation with them, it's, it shows you really care. And it shows that you really listened to them. And I think that's really important in life. And I've always just always done that. And fortunately, Aaron and I, we met at a networking, various networking events actually in Hampshire in North Hampshire. And our paths kept crossing and one particular day, Aaron invited me to have around a golf with him. And we were just talking about our interests, because he's a prolific networker as well. And we had a round of golf and I was playing back then I was once in the spring once in the autumn, I was getting my money's worth out of the fairways, zigzagging down the fairways. Aaron, I think, paid 1212 times a year. And we got to about the back nine of the golf course, and realize the amount of business that we've generated between each other and the connections in the introductions that we've made. And we just thought, wouldn't it be amazing if we could put a networking environment onto the golf course, but make it formal at the beginning and fun during. And that's what we did. So we launched our first group in March 29, sorry, march 2013, in Basingstoke, and never looked back since really, and it was always our intention to grow more groups across the world, because all countries have golf courses, some more than others. To give you an idea, there's 18, and a half 1000 golf courses in America, there's two and a half 1000 golf courses in the UK. So we knew that if we could get our foundations right to the UK, and build a trusted network that was generating amazing referrals, so a really good referral machine, and encouraging members to use all the benefits they've got of their membership to play golf, free golf, really, we use that the Americans would love it. And that's why I'm out here now. And I've committed to this and my family are right behind me, I've got an amazing wife and three daughters. And they've they've supported the whole mindset and said, Go Derek, and do what we've got to do. So I'm out here probably two weeks a month now to to continue the journey that we've done in the UK, but you know, do some great things. And we're creating opportunities now for our members back in the UK, from our friends and members that were now having to join us in America. It's great. Yeah, nice, fantastic. And just so people really understand the four business model, then, Shawn, so obviously, you're playing lots of golf. But when you're not playing golf, kind of how, you know, what does the business look like?
Unknown Speaker 7:43
So when I'm not playing golf, I'm just constantly making introductions. I have got the dream job. There's no no two ways about it. Yes, I get to play golf, I'm not playing as much golf as I used to, although that's a lie, because I'm playing loads out here because I'm doing lots of networking, meeting some great people and building partnerships now, and friendships. But in 2014 to 2018, Aaron and I would play three times four times a week, it would be very rare for us not to be in the car at three, three o'clock in the morning, to be great to be driving anywhere from to Plymouth to Manchester or Liverpool, or fly to Scotland, to host events that start at seven o'clock in the morning, where we meet for an hour, where we just, you know, share challenges, business opportunities, introductions that maybe we're all looking for, and then seeing those synergy partners in the room, and then adapting the Fourballs around that to make sure that you haven't got four accountants or four printers going out together. But you've maybe got a developer, an investment bank, an architect, and maybe a lawyer going out together. And that's basically now what we've what we've delivered. Now across the UK, you mentioned, we've got over 1000 members, we've actually got 1600 members now. And we're very proud, we've probably seen an excess of about 50 million pounds worth of business generated over the eight years on the golf course. And, you know, it's just what we've seen, and especially with the challenges that all businesses have almost businesses over the last 19 months, that the friendship that has now been built, you know, I'm seeing members who have met virtually on some of the Zoom calls that we've hosted between Scotland and Devon, London, and then are meeting up on the golf course. So as much as COVID has been an absolute disaster, and I won't lie you know, at times we were really, really concerned about where was this going to ever stop? You know, we're a we're a recurring revenue business. We're a membership business, very similar to a gym membership business. So when golf courses closed, Members, we're looking at a single you know what's going on guys within 72 hours, we delivered a virtual networking program, which consisted of a one to one platform for members just to jump on Zoom calls, local, virtual meetings, national and international meetings. So we've had Americans, Spanish, Irish members, UK members all coming together. And it's just been fascinating. And because of that, and the friendship they've built, they're now arranging to go and join each other's Fourballs. Around the world. It's just, it's awesome. It's great. You know? Yeah, it's, I feel very privileged. Actually, Chris, I really do. Yeah, I like the way that you, you know, you were curating as well, the groups you mentioned there, making sure you've got the right mix of people, because I think a lot of people, not a lot of people, but some people kind of scared off by the networking idea. And again, we know that comes down to personalities. And, you know, networking, traditionally, it's probably, you know, a thought that comes into mind is just a whole bunch of people in a room, you know, who have their cups of tea, kind of glancing around. And, and it's who makes the first move, right. And it's a bit of small talk. And, and for some people, you know, that's just not effective. It's not really networking with a purpose. So you know, what you've brought here is something real really different. It's a new way to network, you know, it's networking with a difference. But perhaps we can, you know, maybe look at why you think the networking that happens on the golf course is different. What is it about the relationships to the standard way of networking process such a great idea, a such a great point, actually, you made there. So, and I was only talking to three of the guys I've played golf with yesterday, at Orange, orange county, National Golf Club, mazing course, and lovely people. And we were just talking about the trust that you build when you're playing golf, because you can easily cheat in golf easily. You can, by chance, find your ball on the fairway that went into the water, you can say that you shot four points, when actually you shot seven. You can cheat a lot. I don't. And I hope that none of our members do. But people have been known to cheat in golf. So I look at that and say, Okay, so there's a couple of things really, that you can learn from somebody very quickly, when you play golf. How polite are they on the golf course? Do they stand where they need to stand when you're going to play your shot? Do they let you talk a little bit? Or do they do all the talking? Do they help you find your ball when you lose your ball in the woods or in the grass in the thick, thick grass where you're trying to find it and you're onto a really good score, but they just carry on walking down the fairway?
Unknown Speaker 12:46
Do they? And do they cheat? And you know, if you then look at that in business, well, if they cheat, then they're probably going to cheat you out of money. If they're not going to come and help you find your boss or be courteous towards you on the golf course, then they're probably very selfish individuals. So you can learn so much. And actually I would, I would urge anyone in business that doesn't play golf, and this isn't really trying to get them to join for business, learn to play golf, you can find out so much about someone, when you play golf with them. How do they how do they dress? How do they you know, how organized are they when they arrive? You know, are they relaxed? Are they having to take a phone call 20 times as they're walking down the fairway? Or have they got a business that actually has that all sorted out and mapped out for them. Or at least if they're a one man band, they don't need to be answering the phones because they've got an outbound call center answering their calls and making the business look even more organized. So these are so many different things. But you know that the thing, the thing that's so integral about for business is we're a community, we're not a membership anymore. We were a membership years ago, we're a community now. Everyone is looking after everyone. Okay. And, you know, when somebody needs something, whatever it is, they'll put it out on the app, or they'll put it out on the Facebook pages. And, you know, people just come running to help because they feel not obliged, but they just want to help, you know, because they're that way inclined. And I think that's just the great thing that we've got going on. And you know, there are still 1000s of people in the UK that need to find out about for business and, you know, you talk about networking, I'll go out of my way to go in when I go into a networking room, I will go out of my way to go and talk to the person who's looking at his phone or taking a lot longer than normal, maybe our event booklets or something like that, that they're reading. And I do that because I know what that person is like. They're they're quite shy individuals. They're quite uncomfortable. And they don't really feel at home in a networking environment. So I will have a I will have a beeline towards them. I will make them feel comfortable. I will get them talking about their business. are getting telling me how proud they are about these wonderful things they've done for their customers in the last week, months, six months, 12 months. And I will then go out of my way to find out what they do. And then I will do another beeline to another member to make that all important, and sometimes life changing introduction, that's what I do. But I don't just do that, Chris, are events. I do that wherever I go. Because I just, that's just me, I'd love to pull out a few more tips from your experience in networking, Shawn, and, you know, from networking events that, you know, I've been to over the years that are still quite popular formats within networking, and is the one minute pitch so you know, standing up and just being able to really clearly communicate what you do. And any tips and is that something that you do within the For Business Network? Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Unknown Speaker 15:49
So the best thing you can ever do is go into a room of strangers, and say, Hi, I'm Johnny bricks, my business is x. I'm really here, I'm very lucky. You know, I know quite a few people in business, I'm just here to meet your today, understand what you do in business. And then when I really understand what you do in business, I'm gonna be able to leave this room today. And I'm going to be able to make some really good, important introductions to you. And all I ask is maybe once we've had time to maybe have a one to one after today's meeting, you understand what I do. And then you can also keep an ear out for things that I'm looking for introductions as well. Now, that just paints the right picture straightaway. This is a unselfish person in a room with a load of strangers, he wants to understand what they do in business first, before he starts spraying his cards everywhere, telling everybody how amazing he is, he gives you the best service, you know, be every price under the planet. And yeah, just come and use me. And I think, you know, if you if you go in with the right mindset into a networking environment, you'll get a lot more attention. And you'll also get a lot more business opportunities. I used to I don't anymore. I used to go into a room and purposely not tell anybody what I did. And I used to drive them mad. Because I was just interested in what they did in business. And I would ask them, Okay, hang on, sorry. Well, hang on. Sometimes, Chris, when I'm playing golf with somebody, and they tell me what they do. And I don't understand it. I have to understand what they do. And I will not come off that golf course with them until I really understand what they do. Because otherwise, what's the point in saying somebody saw, what do you do in business? And they go, oh, yeah, I do. I build widgets. For, you know, Johnny bricks. I keep using the name of Johnny brakes. And a guy. Okay, cool. And then but I've learned nothing from that other than he just builds widgets. I want to know who your customers, what are your challenges? Who your suppliers? Is there any supply you're not happy with at the moment? You know, that's a great question to us. Here's a few networking tips I'm going to share with you or ideas. And this, this surprises me sometimes the reaction I get from from a lot of business owners, this particular tip. Okay, so you've got your 10 best clients, okay? You service them, you give them great service, great product, whatever it is, you do, they love you, because you love them, because they are your top 10 clients, right? I'd like to think you know, every little detail about their business. And if you're really smart, you're going to know their challenges as well. For two reasons. Number one, if you know them that well, they're going to tell you that they've just been let down by their insurance broker or their security firm or their logistical firm, or they're having a nightmare getting stuff out of China into the UK, or whatever it is they've got, find out what the challenges are in your customers business, and have the confidence and the network around you to then say to your customer. Wow. Okay, that's a challenge you've got there. But I think I've got someone who I can introduce you to that might be able to make that work for you. Would it be too presumptuous of me to make an introduction from my network to you guys. Now, number one, your customer is going to think you're the best thing since sliced bread because they stay awake at night worrying about that challenge and that problem they've got. But take it take it to another, take it to another stage. Look at your top 10 customers and look at their customers and look at who they're trying to target. And now dive into your network and find some of your network that could be buying from some of your customers. And if you haven't got any customers that could be buying from your customers. Go and find some customers for your customer. Go onto LinkedIn, go onto Facebook, go go and do some research for your customer to find them customers, and then phone up your customer and say Hey, Chris, we haven't spoken for a couple of weeks. Deep down. I'm thinking I really need to get that contract over the line. But Chris, listen, the reason why I'm calling you today is I just wanted to share with you. Are you familiar with such and such company down the road? You're not okay. Look, they're in my network. And I know what you guys do this guy should surely be buying from you. Can I make an introduction? Because I know you play golf. I know they play golf. They sell a three ball. Let's put something together here I can they're gonna be up to this. What is your customer going to say, Chris? Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 20:22
yeah, that'd be blown away. Blown away. So now they're blown away. Now they put the phone down, they're probably going to be blown away and tell everyone in the business how amazing you are. And guess what this is what's even better. When your competition, a folding them up to say, Hey, listen, we're the best, we're better than Chris's business. We're going to give better prices, but a service coming up, look at our offices, we've got the best offices in town. You're gonna say, that's all great, but you know what prices and everything. You're going to help us with our bottom line, you're going to give ourselves opportunities, because that's what Chris does. And I think the phone's just gonna get put down, isn't it? I mean, good luck with that, Mr. salesperson. Yeah, yeah. So next level networking tips there. So the level is a different level. And it's, it's so easy to do. And you know, what, if nothing else, Chris, you've got to have a trusted network around you. Because it can go horribly wrong if you introduce somebody, and they let that person down. So you've got to make sure you've really got that. And again, you get that from four hours on spending that time on the golf course with somebody that you might want to refer in. And I certainly don't go out of my way, very quickly, if somebody knocks on my doors. Sean, please, please, please, can you introduce me to that company over there? Well, I can do but it takes time. And you've got to, you've got to give me the confidence here that you can deliver. Because, you know, this is our trusted network as well, you know, but if what I was gonna say there is, even if there isn't a new business opportunity, if your customer right now at least it shows you're looking out for them. And that's, that's better than a bottle of wine. And that's better than a thank you card. Let me just tell you about the Thank You card and the bottle of wine. 90% of people do not say thank you properly for new business or an introduction. And 99% of people do not say thank you, or send a bottle of wine for an introduction that doesn't turn into a business. So that is just what an opportunity there for people to stand out from the crowd. And send a handwritten thank you card, and a bottle of wine that you know that person likes, or take them out for dinner and their wife, or take them in their children to go and watch the mighty Chelsea, or whoever or whoever it might be. My point is care about your customers, but just take it to another level with a network that you grow. You know, it's Yeah. So I'm keen to know how how you've grown the business as well. Sure. And in I'm sure it goes nice price that it's mostly down to referrals right after what we've just been talking about. Some short, your members are just naturally talking to friends and connections of their own. And that's how it's grown. But then what's the typical customer client or for business? You know, what do they look like? You know, how can you describe them? Okay, so 98% of business owners. I would say they turn it a massive range of turnover. We've got companies that turn over 100,000 pounds a year. One man bands, very proud of what they do brilliant, absolute respect to them. And we've got multinational, multi international companies as well turning over billions, Chris. And they come together right on the course. And that's the thing. This is it, you know, I mean, I'm not going to share names. But I'm Aaron and I are very fortunate to know somebody who built a business from zero to 300 million, and to and went out to do exactly that, and sold it two years ago. For a huge amount of money. One of the nicest guys you could ever wish to meet. I played golf with them. Aaron and I play golf with him a lot. And he invited us to play a lot Damon, anybody that knows golf courses. Loch Lomond is one of the courses in the United Kingdom to play if not the world. But before I did that, I was playing golf in St. Andrews, at Fairmont St. Andrews, which is a group that we used to post and I was playing golf with one of our members. And I talked about this particular friend of mine who was in the renewable and renewable energy industry. And he said, Oh my God, he's my hero. He's my absolute hero, Shawn, I'd love an introduction. I said, well, listen, Aaron and I are coming up to Scotland in a couple of months time and we're playing with with with this person and his business partner chatting about stuff. We're playing Gleneagles, but you come and join us at Gleneagles. And then we're playing with a layman and he said, If you can do that, that'd be amazing. Well, within 24 hours, it was arranged. Two days later, three days later, the flights were booked and I was walking down the fairway sat Gleneagles with one of our four business members, Aaron and I, and our friends, and they were just chewing the fat about the renewable energy business, having fun, and making massive inroads into what they roll out to do in their business lives, and that's what it's all about, you know? And yes, it's, it's just so much fun,
Unknown Speaker 25:20
very much makes me think of the ripple effect, right? Just that little drop of, of just coming from a good place, and just letting it expand and who knows where that might lead. But if you just keep doing that, and consciously do that, surely good things are gonna happen. I think I think you've got to naturally do it as well, Chris, you know, I think if you're doing it, because you're, you know, you're trying to your strategy is that and you just know that it's working, working working, then I think that's it. I don't know, is it unhand? Maybe not, but you've got to, you've got to, you've got to enjoy making introductions to put you've got to not because you get any kickback, I've never had a kickback in my life, my ad, I've never asked for one, I'd never want one. But it's when you when you make an introduction, and you can just see what effect that's had. It's just, it's the best best. That's that's the payback. For me, that's like the drug for me that, that makes me do what I that's, that's what gets me out of bed every day. I don't, I've got this, I've got this, this mood map storyboard in my house. And I've got certain things on there that remind me in morning at night, what I need to do before I go to bed and what I have to do when I get up in the morning, one of the things I really love to do at night, so I'm going a bit off off off the fairway here with the one of the things I really like to do at night time is drop somebody an email really late, because I know they're not going to read it at night, but then they read it in the morning. And it's a really nice email to thank them for just being amazing because of something that they've done. And I can't tell you what kind of a day that person has, you know, getting a nice email at 730 in the morning to start my days, like, wow, you know, it takes it takes five minutes, doesn't it to do things like that. But social media actually has played a really big part in our, in our journey, Chris, and I know businesses, a lot of businesses struggle with this. They struggle because of time. But they maybe also struggle because they can't afford to take on somebody to, you know, be their community manager, if you like under social media, and we've managed to manage it ourselves, I think quite well. And to give you an idea, we've probably got something in the region of about 100 unique posts every day going out on our LinkedIn and Facebook, Instagram, and everything else, some of that's from us, mostly is our members sharing amazing stories about what's working for them, sharing the golden ticket they've got so as a full business member, you get to invite anybody you know, who's a business owner wishes to play more golf, and quite frankly, played played guilt free golf, they can have a golden ticket, which allows them to have a whole month free of charge, which includes their networking and their round of golf at the networking event. Plus, in a month, Monday to Friday, they can book a football, we cover theirs and their guests green fees, access to our app, access to our social media and access to all our virtual meetings that we host. And they can have that golden ticket completely free of charge. So members are actively promoting that, why are they doing that, because they want to help the business community, what a lovely posts to put, if I'm based in Croydon, or or Chester or wherever it might be. And I am the go to guy in business that wants to create opportunities for my for my network and the people out there that I've met. Well, if anybody's out there that can handle more business, we're looking right now for this particular profession to join our group. And I've got a free golden ticket who wants to come along. So that's working really well as well through the social media and the app and everything else. So it's really powerful stuff. I mean, you know, we've, we've integrated and built some amazing automation within the business to give you an idea, there's only five of us in the business full time. I'm in the UK, and then we've got to an America. And it's it's some it's really, really good, we've saved a lot of money, and headcount, because of the automation, that the team that we've got are just brilliant, you know, they know what they've got to do, and they care about what they do as well. And without them I wouldn't be I would be out here would I mean you know, I'd be having to give an hour what's going on an hour and can be in Spain looking after Spanish members and guests over there as well. So a little bit like your business, you know, you've got a great foundation there and, and a great team of people. We're always working towards that. And I haven't told you that I was in retail for nine years before you know for the age of 16. And for me it was all about customers. Service looking people in the whites of the eyes have given them great customer service and, and that's the belief that we've got in our team. Although we're behind email a lot of the time and behind a call, and behind social media, you smile down the phone, you smile when you do a post it comes across. Yeah,
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