In this engaging episode, Kevin Whelan is interviewed by Manish Kataria as Kevin discusses the importance of financial independence and the tools available to achieve it. The conversation covers various topics, including SSAS pensions, inheritance tax, and the significance of community and knowledge in building wealth. Kevin emphasises the need for individuals to take control of their financial futures, the benefits of consolidating pensions, and the strategies for effective wealth transfer.
In this interview, Kevin Whelan and Manish Kataria delve into the intricacies of SSAS pension, exploring how it can serve as a powerful financial tool for business owners.
They discuss the importance of taking action in financial planning, the benefits of collaboration in wealth building, and the implications of inheritance tax on financial strategies.
The conversation emphasises the need for financial education and the potential of SSAS pensions to create wealth now, rather than just serving as a retirement fund.
In this episode, Kevin speaks about the importance of recurring income, effective financial planning, and the significance of protecting wealth through wills and insurance.
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Resources Mentioned In This Episode:
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Speaker 2 (00:00.046)
The SSAS Pension is a money purchase pension, a small self-administered scheme for limited company owners. It's a business pension. It's a bit like turning your pension into a business. It gives people the opportunity, particularly families, small businesses, husbands and wives, grown-ups, to pool and collaborate their money and see it as a worthwhile investment, a tax-free investment for their family. You can invest in whatever you
on to a basting.
Whether it's the stock market, whether it's property, whether it's lending to your own company, they're building their wealth today with pension money that they didn't think was possible.
It's
Speaker 1 (00:37.101)
realize.
Speaker 3 (00:42.414)
Hello and welcome to this week's episode of Wealth Talk. My name is Christian Rodwell, the membership director for Wealth Builders. And in this week's special Wealth Talk episode, Kevin Whelan sits down with fellow wealth educator and investor Manish Kataria for an in-depth conversation on how you can take control of your financial future. And I'd like to say thanks to Manish for allowing us to share this interview with you.
as it originally featured on his very own Invest Like A Pro podcast, which I highly recommend you go and subscribe to as well as Wealth Talk, of course, if you haven't already done so. So in this episode, Manish and Kevin are going to explore practical ways that you can build multiple streams of recurring income, as well as the power of pensions, especially SSAS pensions and the mindset shifts required to achieve financial independence. Okay, time now for me to hand things over to Manish Kittaria.
and Kevin Whelan.
So welcome, Kevin, to the podcast. How are doing?
I'm doing really well and thanks for the invitation. It almost feels like a chat with an old friend.
Speaker 3 (01:48.416)
Absolutely. Yeah. We have so many things in common and actually I was just making a list of some of the things that we regularly talk about and we seem to have in common because you also have a podcast which is called Wealth Talk, which by the way is a really excellent podcast. if you haven't got onto that yet, really, really worth checking that one out. And so, yeah, there's lots of interesting topics you talk about there. And I just put together a list of four things that we talk about a lot. seem to...
share in terms of our interests and what we have in common. So number one, we both really care about guiding and educating people to become financially secure and independent. And that's not something that any of us ever learn at school, right? Or as adults, right? And that's why it's so important that I think we both do that. Number two, we believe nobody will ever manage your money and your future better than yourself. Number three, we show
that there are really fantastic tools out there for people to take control of their own financial path. And Kevin, I know one of your areas of expertise is SSAS pensions, which we'll come onto. And that's a really great tool to take control of your own financial path. finally, and I talk about this a lot and I know Kevin agrees with it, and that's the importance of being aware and cutting your fits. the fits being fees, inflation,
and taxes. So those are the sort of things I came up with. I'm sure there's loads more, Kevin, but... we don't agree on everything all the time.
But that's fine, isn't it? It's good. And whenever you're talking to a fellow professional to have a slightly different view on some things, because that can polarize and help an audience determine who do they resonate with on a particular point. And I think, but fundamentally, the principles are the same. I would echo the points that you've made. And for the reason, though, when we touched on it, Svani, just off air as we were saying to each other, that
Speaker 1 (03:33.806)
...
Speaker 1 (03:42.582)
made wholly.
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So many people drift. The world and the tyranny of their daily routine takes them over. And they don't always take action. They hear it on a podcast or they read it in or online. Take the action. So I think surrounding yourself with good people, not just listening, not just reading or watching, but actually taking action is the key. if we can leave
in life.
Speaker 1 (04:02.651)
it in a magazine or but they don't take
Speaker 1 (04:14.574)
making action.
Speaker 2 (04:18.446)
your audience today with one or two small things they can do, they have to be many things and they take that action then momentum is always better than meditation.
in my view.
That's a really good way of putting it. Yeah. And I find the same. So when I talk to investors, it's such a good point because it's not that people don't know want to take action. Some people don't have the confidence and what drives that confidence is not necessarily having that knowledge or that sort of guiding light to help you in the direction that you should be going in. And really what happens when people don't have that knowledge, they tend to do what is the easiest thing, which is to do nothing. That's the default action to do nothing.
And really that's a dangerous place to be in if you're thinking about your financial future and wanting to secure that. Doing nothing is the worst thing sometimes you could be doing. And sometimes I say to my investors, sometimes that's even worse than doing what might possibly be considered to be the wrong thing. So yeah, and inaction is a dangerous thing. So I totally agree with that. So Kevin, you're a big fan of pensions and that's falls into the T within the FIPS and the T is...
saving taxes and not only saving taxes, pensions are actually a way to actually earn money from the taxman. And your niche within pensions is SSAS pensions. So for our listeners who may not be familiar with what SSAS pensions are, what are they, Kevin? And how do they differ from a regular pension? So we're talking about a company pension or a SIP.
Speaker 2 (05:46.926)
Well, I suppose I'll start there and work backwards if you don't mind. That almost everybody in the UK is...
applying to a greater or lesser degree on their pension at some point in the future.
the value of
Now there are some pensions that have a value.
as in there's a pot of money to manage and take the risk of.
Speaker 2 (06:07.138)
that they have it over the course of their life. So when you have money in a pot, money in a pot, money purchase, that's the kind of language. So you know you've got that because you get the statement. The big thing as far as the pots are concerned, so important to understand, as you said earlier on the fees, the charges associated with that, whether you're actively or passively getting involved. But that's
something for another concept, the SSAS pension is a money purchase pension, a small self-administered scheme. The language is very clunky. The SSAS is only for limited company owners. It's a business pension. It's a bit like turning your pension into a business. So it reflects who are. And just as a business is set up legally, so a SSAS is, it's a small scheme for a small business.
but the are not.
Speaker 1 (06:56.546)
you are.
Speaker 1 (07:03.945)
and a small family.
some number of people 11, which is interesting. I know why it came about as being 1973 is when they were started, but the pension pretty much is a single person. Whereas what I love about SAS is it gives people the opportunity, particularly families, small businesses, husbands and wives growing up to pool and collaborate their money and see it as a worthwhile, a tax free,
lesson scheme.
Speaker 1 (07:24.878)
kids.
and say all enterprise.
Lost font.
for their family, means they have to get involved to make it grow. Because as you said, again, I'm finding myself agreeing with you too much. don't know. We normally like to have a disagreement, don't we? But the fact that nobody's going to take care of your money more than you do. What SAS does is allows them take place. But like in a business, you would do that. You'd have share
you.
Speaker 1 (07:57.058)
holders and directors and you have a conversation.
So it is with SAS, but the benefit of SAS and the unique points about SAS other than the collaboration, so it's not a part for one. Yes, you mentioned it. You can get corporate tax relief. So all companies pay taxes. They're making profit, of course. And if you're making profit, you're going to pay $20,000.
multiple paw.
Speaker 1 (08:14.274)
as long as they're
Speaker 1 (08:18.798)
5 % corporation tax typically.
Well, if you can claim that money back, basically use money to be able to build a pot that you can.
back and.
Speaker 1 (08:29.23)
invest in whatever you want to invest in.
whether it's the stock market, which I know is your passion, whether it's property, whether it's lending to your own company, whatever you want to do, whether it's gold, whether it's crypto, you've got so much freedom to be your own investor DNA reflected in what it is you want to do. the language, as I said, invented.
it's
Speaker 1 (08:45.742)
who you want to be to have
Speaker 1 (08:53.518)
the language is a bit strange. would term that said small self-administration scheme? The small family. is another word for pension. That's just a legal term.
which is just crazy but the school basically then. Small business ski.
Speaker 2 (09:08.558)
self-administered as a bit of a misnomer. really should be renamed
If I was assuming it, I'd call it the director's pension or directed pension.
or the small self-employment because you direct, you don't have to administer. There are administrators who do administration and bookkeeping and compliance because all pensions have got to be held separately from your own personal life and as we'll discuss I'm sure inheritance tax, there has to be a professional to deal with the inheritance tax, to deal with tax-free cash. So all the other rules as far as
position.
Speaker 2 (09:43.052)
inheritance and tax-free cash. They apply to the real value of SES then.
or pensions.
collaboration, wide scope of investing.
One other point which I will make is very powerful, which is the only pension that it can actually leave me to become or be a bank to you. So if you've got a pension part, imagine you collaborate and you've got a husband and
Which
Speaker 1 (10:00.387)
do money.
yourself.
Speaker 1 (10:08.504)
Wives say, it's a very simple term.
with 200,000 pounds each in their...
pension now got a pot 400.
Now they've got a business or a property business, they
We've lend 200 off of the 400.
Speaker 2 (10:20.494)
to their own company to go and do what they. Which means that. money today they're not putting the money in a bucket and saying do not disturb till I'm sixty five minutes out for the. They're using that money today building their wealth today with pension money that they didn't. So I've done justice in a limited way to talk about the real power and the benefit and there's one other will get to when we talk about.
they want to do. Building the wealth with pension money.
Speaker 1 (10:31.736)
best.
Speaker 1 (10:38.478)
realize was possible.
Speaker 1 (10:49.292)
inherited stocks I'm
Yeah, that's really useful, Kevin, because it's not a pension that the wider public knows about. And really, as you mentioned, it's really for business owners and it's a director's pension, which is why it's not in the mainstream. But I think you really summarized it well. So if I was to repeat back the main points, it's still a wrapper, just like the other pension schemes we mentioned. So you still get the amazing tax benefits. I call it free money, because if you're contributing into your pension, that is
thousands and thousands of free money, is given to you as a rebate from the tax band, which would just compound up in the usual way, but just in a tax-free way. But you also have a lot more flexibility with this, so you can invest your money into various different asset classes and you can get your family involved. And the other really interesting thing, which some of our
listeners may not be aware of is that you can actually draw down or not draw down, sorry, that's probably not the correct term, but you can access some of this capital before you turn 55 or 65 or whatever is your retirement age.
So if you're third, bye, you can.
Speaker 2 (12:02.702)
access to 35 is not just early access, it's immediate access. So yeah, I think you've reflected the benefits well and it only applies to business owners. But what we're finding certainly in our wealth builder community, as people build their
Access.
Speaker 1 (12:14.862)
multiple streams of recurring income with our guidance.
Increasingly, they're building it in property, in business, in intellectual property, and in joint ventures and collaboration, which brings out their entrepreneurs. As a result of that, many of them, even if they weren't, become limited company owners in the future, because they see their whole family as a wealth building business and a legacy that of itself has grown. It's almost like creating
inspirations for the supernatural spirit.
Give me two company owners.
Speaker 1 (12:44.482)
deep plan.
got merit.
like a family office like they have in America. You've got this idea of the family wealth will perpetuate to the next generation and generation. Building streams of income gives you the certainty to be able to do that and to feel confident that no matter what budgets or politics throw at you, you're going to be financially set for life and set your kids for life too. in a world where children are living longer in America,
next operation.
Speaker 1 (13:13.038)
life, and then you can
Speaker 2 (13:20.014)
typical age that people will live now for younger people, my grandkids, for example, they'll live to a hundred years. If you can live a hundred years age and you've got all the risk yourself in your traditional pension, boy, you've got to know exactly what you're doing. You've got a tough job trying to make money that you've saved out of a job, say, try and turn that into something that will support and sustain you for your lifetime from 60 something or 70 something to
is about
Speaker 1 (13:33.806)
job quickly and
Speaker 1 (13:47.598)
100 crumbs, that's an immense job and why.
your good teachings of how to keep your fees down investing, how to look at passive investing as opposed to active investing, how to get involved in options and so on. In many ways, the stock market can bring value in a way that most people just simply delegate that money to a third party. And that delegation very quickly turns as they forget what they've got. And that's evidenced by the size of the pot, 27 billion.
into abdication
Speaker 2 (14:20.514)
That's bigger than the whole economy at the moment. People have got a pension, they've forgotten. It's huge amount of money simply drifting in the sea. In the end, if it's not claimed, it will go to the revenue. So I encourage everyone who's got a piece of start to keep track.
in the economy at the moment, in lost pension, that they lost. That's huge amount of money.
that is.
Speaker 1 (14:40.248)
pension to keep over that and
If you are not sure whether you've had something that's been lost, it's been forgotten, the company's gone bust or an insurance company changed the name. There's a tracing agency, government tracing agency, a doctor site that will help people get a little bit. That's the If you're to do something in 25, get a sense of where your pensions are and that's going to be because if the change has come in in 27,
clear on that. So yeah, you want
Speaker 1 (15:08.546)
where needed massive
Speaker 2 (15:15.074)
which is about inheritance tax. It's going to be more important. You've kept track of your pensions because the tax has to be paid. And if you've got an inheritance tax bill that needs to paid, it's the trustee or the administrator that's got to You've got four, five, six pensions. You're going to be paying so much in fees to cover that. So I would suggest people start to think about if you've got pensions, understand them.
We should talk about that.
Speaker 1 (15:27.512)
needs to be paid out of your pension.
And if they have to
Speaker 2 (15:45.001)
simplify them.
wherever you can and then, and if you're looking to see if that might be a good fit for you.
keep track of what you're doing, got to live in your company, take a good test.
Yeah. Amazing advice that that could be worth tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, just that bit alone actually. so really do take advice from, from what Kevin has just told us. You mentioned options earlier, Kevin, and yeah, look at that. I find the same. So I teach people how to invest in options and people are getting very high levels of monthly recurring income on options. And I often get asked, well, how can I take this?
in a tax-efficient way. And you can't do that in a nicer. So you can't do options in a nicer. Pensions are a great way. I have a lot of investors who are doing options, earning good levels of income in their pensions in a tax-free wrapper. So SSAS is another great way to enjoy that without paying tax. There are some SIP providers out there who allow you to do with that, but you don't get the same flexibility and they're not actually very good. A SSAS is a great way to
Speaker 3 (16:49.454)
be doing options actually. So that's great advice. So you talked earlier about inheritance tax and the recent budget we've just had, maybe dropped a bit of a bombshell. I don't know, you might have some views on this. And some people were freaking out because now pensions potentially come under inheritance tax liability because they fall into your pension, into your estate when inherited.
So what can you tell us about that? Should people be panicking? What should people be doing about this new change of policy?
Well, I never recommend anybody panic over anything. We saw it though. We saw hundreds of thousands of people taking out their tax free cash in the run up to the budget because they thought the government might somehow put the kibosh. Some of them have thought they had a 30 day cooling off notice. So they put the request for the cash in, they'd wait the 30 days. Don't take it out if the government didn't change it. And the revenue said, no.
on that and then.
Speaker 2 (17:53.55)
There's no cooling off period. If you requested your tax free cash, you'd get it. So a lot of people caught up because they panicked. never
ever a need ever panic
to
you've ruled out hoping for.
Speaker 1 (18:20.418)
was a bombshell and no, didn't predict it.
I was completely knocked out when they said, despite the fact you may have been planning your pension for years, part of your thought was to build a pot where you could support yourself, but whatever you hadn't sent would be left to the next generation free of inheritance tax. That was always a good thing. It was a real bonus.
wise.
Speaker 1 (18:34.638)
and years.
Speaker 1 (18:54.926)
pensions ab-
bigger bonus than just the free money as you call it and the tax free. But now the inheritance tax comes. It means if you die and you got your money in a whatever's added to your estate for the purpose of inheritance tax. Now, no reason because you've got generally speaking, unless you've got a very short life, you've got time to plan these.
turns.
in
and left can be this.
Speaker 1 (19:19.662)
frequency, things.
Now, one of the things that you can certainly do too, one is with SAS, because it's a family, can invite your grownup children from age 18 into the scheme. You've got a double option.
I I think.
For example, trust fund and you
Speaker 1 (19:41.282)
inside SAS.
One, you can make contributions for your children. Take the tax relief instead of paying into your account. Which means you're bypassing inheritance tax altogether because you're building debt.
and pay to their account.
Speaker 1 (19:55.266)
airport not building your own to pass on, you're an airport.
two in South Duke and Earmark, it means you can cascade money to the next generation by saying, in the group scheme, because there are many members of the team, the older person can take the lower returning assets and the higher returning assets can go to the other. So you can almost start to nudge over a long term, can create a reduction.
One
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people.
Speaker 1 (20:21.464)
and open plan.
Speaker 1 (20:26.604)
the impact of inheritance tax.
But the biggest one of all, is never ever talked about Venetian, so few people have even heard of it. I mentioned this one, it's called gifts out of England. So everybody who studies inheritance tax knows that you can make small gifts to your children and to grandchildren and weddings and things like that. Tiny, it's not even really worth discussing as a. Two things to point out there. One is the 325,000.
it.
Speaker 1 (20:50.648)
But so
plan.
Speaker 2 (20:59.566)
What's called the nil rate, the amount of money anybody can. To the spouse. In mind, there's Heritance tax. lot of people might be thinking about getting married actually because there is inheritance tax to pay to non-spouse. But anyway, revolving. Three and 25 every seven years, can build up three 25 click, but below nurse, three 25 to another three 25. It's got a revolving.
and leave tax free to the next generation. But in her spouse,
Speaker 1 (21:17.326)
But that's a really
Speaker 2 (21:29.422)
every seven years there. But the best and certainly suits my wealth builder, students and clients is gifts out of income. So if you can prove, which is why I believe in recurring income, because recurring income you can measure and you can value is always going to be up and And you've got to convert it into income at some point anyway. So if you've got a high level of recurring income from property or from your pension or from your business or
one for me.
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value.
Speaker 1 (21:46.318)
count.
down.
Speaker 2 (21:59.234)
you get it. You can prove that the level of income that is surplus to the requirements of. So if you can show that you need I'll pick it. If you can live on five thousand pounds a month or sixty grand. Recurring income is a high. You can give away the four.
you have.
your life.
Speaker 1 (22:14.99)
year and your 100 grand a year, 20 grand a year and there's no limit and there's
time, a seven year rule, because you've demonstrated complete do not and it's called a gift out of it. So the planning opportunities, which is why your point about
that you do not need that money.
Speaker 1 (22:39.246)
Panicking is never ever about
anything panic just see something realize you might want to dig deep and ask a question find people around you with whom you resonate with their message and how they can that message take some guidance necessary take professional paid for advice
that into it and then and find
Speaker 1 (22:54.318)
And then guidance and if
and then make decisions.
the right decision, not a knee-jerk decision based on something you heard from somebody down the pub or somebody somewhere who doesn't really have the necessary expertise guaranteed that would be able to help you understand what
need to understand.
Absolutely. And I didn't hear any headlines talking about that nugget, gift out of income. That's a huge thing. So let me just get this right. So it's called gift out of income. There are no limits. There are no monetary limits on this. There are no seven year limits on this. And you can do it and you can gift that to members of your family or anyone you want to. Okay. And this has nothing to do with your pension or anything like that. It's for anybody outside of your pension. Wow.
Speaker 2 (23:41.483)
Anyone you want
Speaker 3 (23:49.996)
Wow. Okay. So that's definitely something we need to be talking to our accountants about. I guess the challenge is demonstrating how much I can do.
It's all.
the documentation and of course there's always a fine line to walk isn't there between building
your wealth and protecting your wealth and passing on a legacy.
Because when you're young, you're still building yourself, so you're not really needing to think about that. When you're more often than not, people get too old. Silent generation, I've got a... I'm sure other people do, in their 80s and 90s, they've stopped talking. They've stopped thinking about plans. They're just drifting into an inheritance tax bill nobody can do anything about.
Speaker 1 (24:19.138)
This. A mom that's living in.
Speaker 1 (24:25.976)
Susan, whatever, Andy, about money.
Speaker 1 (24:35.606)
that. and that's leaving it too late.
And so the right time is always going to be unique to you. Now, if for example, in wealth builders, we believe that almost anyone, and we use the same principles as you, you could have the right finance. We talk about fit as well, but the right level of finance, the right clear level of interest and the right of... You can get someone to a place where they've got some money or know where they can save money or make money. They've got...
time.
Speaker 2 (25:09.196)
an area of interest that really gives them energy, doesn't make them feel bored, doesn't make them feel negative, and they can put some time in. Anybody could start to build recurring income streams immediately and be financially independent.
into it.
Speaker 1 (25:20.558)
immediately.
within five to seven years.
So if you've got somebody who's 40, they should be able to be completely financially independent, somewhere around the 47, 48. Now, once you're financially independent, that's never gonna change because you're always building that recurring. Might be affected a little bit, the moment just keeps coming. Because if you're not spending all the income, the pot keeps growing.
And you know that.
Speaker 1 (25:42.094)
Okay.
Speaker 1 (25:45.87)
quantum keeps growing.
you're reinvesting. So growing and recurring keeps growing. Well then maybe 50
So you could start to start thinking about the plunder, the legacy plan for next generation. So the sooner you can have a plan to be independent, the sooner you can start to really work out to leave a tax free legacy to the next generation. The additional point I would make, mentioned that younger people today will probably that they need knowledge to go with that. The reason why the 90 year olds
and the next question.
Speaker 1 (26:08.576)
and see.
Speaker 1 (26:17.102)
to live to 100.
Speaker 1 (26:23.011)
Well.
pay the tax or their estate pays it, is they never had the knowledge they need. The reason why the next generation, generally speaking, will be poorer than the one is because there's no knowledge. So to me, it's just as important, not just to transfer money, to transfer knowledge. So the more that students can take an active interest in managing their own way,
never interest.
Speaker 1 (26:35.65)
that I'm in.
transfer.
Speaker 1 (26:44.238)
knowledge. Your students and my students.
Speaker 1 (26:50.344)
their own life.
the they're able to pass that on to the next generation. So we see ourselves as our money passes on together with the knowledge that accumulated that money, but also the wisdom to pass that knowledge on. So to me, this is a holistic thing. It's not about thinking into one knee-jerk.
stewards.
Speaker 1 (27:07.938)
the generations you
Speaker 1 (27:14.887)
or another it's about having an overall long-term
which is about families.
12.
Yeah, absolutely. And those are such good points because just touching upon what you said about obtaining financial freedom, and it's really about building an asset base and letting your assets earn your income for you rather than you. then you are free to then go and do the things that you really enjoy in life, right? And there could be nothing better. And for me, I love doing what I do, but I want to have the choice of being able to do it.
when I want and from where I want. And the whole concept of financial freedom is not just financial freedom, but the freedom to be where you want and do what you want as long as you want. Right. And that's the key thing. And everything you're talking about here, being educated, knowing how to do these things. And some of these things aren't actually very complex. It's just people haven't been conditioned to be aware of these things. And I often say to my investors,
Speaker 3 (28:12.018)
All of us, even myself, who's got a background in finance and investing as you do, Kevin, none of us were ever taught at school how to manage our own finances, right? The whole point of school was to get you through to the next step, pass your exams, get onto the corporate ladder. So you're always conditioned to serve society, either passing your exams, serving the corporate world, and doing what's right for the economy and doing what's right for the corporate world.
That's why we were never, we are never taught how to invest our money, right? And so what you've just said is super important because if you can learn this stuff and pass it down the generations, because we know that society has no interest or governments have no interest in teaching us how to invest, because that would be against, you know, the way the economy works, right? Who would work for a living if you could let your investments do all your hard work for you? So, so really important considerations, I think there.
You touched earlier about pensions and consolidating your pensions. Why is that important, Kevin? Why is it important to know where your pensions are? That's obvious. Why is it important to consolidate your pensions? Is it for control purposes or for economic benefits? What is it that you're about consolidating your pensions?
The point I made before is there is so much money that the more disconnected you become to pensions and the more you see them as small individual fragmented problems rather than the total value of all of them, the more likely it is you'll put off because it'll be a few thousand. yeah, I was only there two years.
lost in the Jhineetha and the Moksha.
Speaker 2 (29:59.192)
People make those sorts of assumptions all of the time. What I'm saying is people are keeping track. What you own is really important. Then you can start to make decisions about the value in terms of the fees, in terms of the returns, in terms of the investment style that you want to bring. The more you're disconnected, you won't know any
The principle of what
Speaker 1 (30:14.636)
money you're getting.
Speaker 1 (30:25.102)
those things.
If I ask someone, look, how much have you got in your pension? What three, one with this company, one with that company. Do know what fees you pay? Do know what your investment strategy is? Whether you're active, what, when was the last time you reviewed that in line with trying to assess whether you're going to be financially independent? It's almost like reading and filing state to which can organize. But not really well structured.
parts of this episode.
Speaker 1 (30:38.286)
No.
Speaker 1 (30:45.868)
and at the same time never done it.
is the degree to they feel they're well-organized. Everything's new.
Speaker 2 (30:56.588)
And I think simpler is better because if you can simplify your pensions and that can be done by consolidation. Now look, there are always pros and cons. I'm not saying to people consolidate your pension. Think about doing it and get some guidance on it because some pensions are very valuable. They've got some hidden benefits. Some have got hidden charges. Some have got guaranteed rates. Some have got no, it's available to the next generation.
saying
Speaker 1 (31:21.549)
to new to
death benefit, available information or to leave it.
So every pension has got its own set of rules, but it's just by having a look at that and if you can
work it out for yourself, If not...
then pay an expert to do it for you and then you consolidate life simple, now you can get on. The other point I made earlier on, which is the inheritance tax, if you've got disparate pot, somebody's got to get them together anyway.
Speaker 1 (31:40.238)
didn't make life with your life.
Speaker 1 (31:49.71)
And then each trust
the
And if you are.
Speaker 1 (32:09.31)
It's just a nightmare.
that's waiting to happen. That's why I suggest simple is better than complex. When it comes to looking at let somebody take care of that if you don't want to
Similarly, you find answers and
Dude, it's fine, but make sure you're getting value for money.
Make sure you're keeping a control of your fees. That's fine. But don't have too many because if you ask an advisor to try and put all this together, the more you're going to pay them in fees. So you might as do that consolidation now or look at that. Have a conversation with somebody you trust about. Now I've got them all together. Should I make them simpler?
Speaker 1 (32:34.382)
the more disparate they are.
Speaker 1 (32:39.534)
Now, how.
Should I?
and what would be the best way to do that.
Yeah, I agree. I agree. And it's key point keeping things simple. And a lot of people falsely believe that complexity in finance, complexity achieves results. But everything I see very clearly shows me that the simpler you keep your investment strategy, the simpler you keep your pensions and everything else, the better results you're going to get. And so I see that very clearly. The people who we offer on the investment academy, we offer people who attend.
the opportunity to review their pension schemes, their managed portfolios. And nine times out of 10, they're underperforming or they're paying super high fees. And most people don't realize that because they think it's being managed by a so-called professional. As I said before, and which you agreed with Kevin, nobody manages your money better than you can yourself. Once you have these sort of basic tools to do that.
Speaker 3 (33:45.432)
So really worth considering that to consolidate your pensions, making life easier for your future generations, keeping your costs down, taking control and really having a unified investment strategy really, because when it's in one place, you can manage it better and in a more simple way. What else can people do Kevin in terms of, you've talked about pensions, what else should people be looking at in terms of?
safeguarding their assets, securing them and really taking care of the next generation as well.
Well, I think this basic principle of it's always exciting, isn't it? You and I get excited about building wealth, but rarely do people get excited about protecting it. don't, inheritance tax obviously is paying for debt. So that's just something that's inevitable, for most people that's really... But in the short run, get, people get ill, don't they? People get sick, people get into a position where they die early.
a long way off.
Speaker 2 (34:44.555)
So I would say for sure, always make sure you've made a will, always make sure you've got the powers of attorney. Very simple. They sound complicated, but they're not. A few hundred pounds each to put a will together, your family. few hundred pounds each to make sure that if you can't make decisions for yourself, decisions can be made. Your property, your business, or your finances, or even your health has been a lot of
whether it's back.
publicity hasn't there recently about right to live right to survive and so on and it just puts health in sharper focus everybody's knows of somebody who's been unwell so I just think taking care of basics and recognizing that if you want to build the wealth of your family, but you're not wealthy yet, then it doesn't hurt to look at
Ensuring yourself.
So that if something happens to you, you can't be the agent that builds these assets because you die prematurely or you get seriously ill. Then insurance can step in and provide the wherewithal to make that happen. So that if you survive well, build your If you don't, you've got insurance to ensure you do. And gradually as you build your wealth, you can remove
Speaker 1 (35:55.96)
You b**** assets.
Speaker 2 (36:05.518)
the need for insurance, I don't think people...
link the two ideas together.
It's almost like I only need insurance because I get it from my work, or I only need insurance because I've got a mortgage to But it's about building wealth. It's about creating that freedom, that peace of mind, that certainty. In very uncertain world, the best way to do that is again to think about putting the basic building blocks of bills and pounds of attorney in play.
And then having a look at what we.
be the insurance needed to make sure your family was safe and you were safe should the worst happen and you don't get to the point where you're enjoying a life in your 70s, 80s.
Speaker 1 (36:50.062)
and 90s.
Great advice again. It's sometimes, and I also echo this, Kevin. So when I making gains is glamorous, right? So making investment gains is what everyone's always thinking about. But sometimes I've talked about saving fees and things like that, but also the less glamorous aspects can sometimes have as much impact on your life and for your future generation. yeah, it's not as glamorous, but it is from a sort of monetary and sleeping well at night point of view.
It can be even more important sometimes. And when you've got the safeguards in place, when you can sleep at night, that frees you up to make, make gains elsewhere with the freedom of knowing that if the worst was to happen, you've got your family looked after, which is so important.
I agree, it's a peace of mind issue for many. It's a peace of mind that was important to me when I was building my wealth. don't need any more. There's no reason for it. Obviously, there are discussions about insuring inheritor's tax and all those sorts of things, it's, I think, beyond the scope of today's conversation. But nonetheless, this complexity versus simplicity point is a big one for you and I, because we've had a background
Need to ensure
Speaker 2 (38:04.302)
In my case, over 30 years in finance and therefore that complexity. I understand so many different things about how the law works, how taxes work, how finance works, how SAS has worked, for example. But for the average person starting, I'd just say, find something simple you can do. You don't have to do everything. Don't let things go whoosh over your head. Just choose something you can do. Really do something every month.
natural to me now.
Speaker 1 (38:24.782)
Okay.
Speaker 1 (38:31.989)
I
That's more
thing, but make your will this month or take stock of where your pensions are this month and then do something different the next month so that you're making small baby steps that you are moving will lead you to a better decision. I want to point you made earlier on, which is doing something is better than doing nothing in reality because doing nothing can change.
create momentum and the movement.
Speaker 1 (39:02.062)
means nothing will ever.
your confidence drains, you get to a place where increasingly you're less willing to do anything because you need to either understand everything, but just understand the one thing that you're working on. I think that's best with a buddy, whether it's a spouse, or it's a friend, like a running buddy or a gym buddy, somebody that you can talk to that you feel that you don't want to let them down. So you're both going to do something.
partner above.
Speaker 1 (39:24.814)
or j-buddy.
Speaker 1 (39:32.842)
your husband and wife's side but often that isn't the case I find.
scenario, both being on
there's conflicts in families because they're not seeing. So you can do that. You could get a guy, you could get a coach, you get a mentor, you could just join a community. And the combination of those things will hold you to account and keep you talking to people who are like-minded as opposed to people saying, why did you do that? Just come back and do what we are doing. And what they are doing is drifting.
I try on different things.
Speaker 3 (40:06.668)
Yeah, I love that. That's such a powerful thing. And you talked about community and wealth builders is a great place for community. I'm, and I should just declare I'm a wealth coach with wealth builders. And I see this all the time when I'm talking to clients, investors, the whole community aspect, people learning from each other is so important as having a coach, like you mentioned. And finally, I love the idea of sort of movement and momentum.
And you've given us so much value today, Kevin, in terms of building that momentum. And you said something that really resonates, do something every month, which is so powerful because that enables the momentum. And you've given so much value today. That's going to help us do something for the entire new year in 2025. Cause there's so many nuggets in this today, which I've been making notes around new things I've learned. So I'm going to be actioning some of those things that will keep me busy next year.
Thanks for the humility of being open-minded and seeing yourself as a student to pass on the knowledge from people you're interviewing that will be useful for them. also just to thank you on behalf of Wealth Builders for the sterling work you do. Giving back, I know you're not doing it for any kind of real financial gain. This is you wanting to give back to people. I genuinely appreciate that and look forward to more years of working with you, whether it's
and I appreciate.
Speaker 2 (41:28.536)
strategic alliances or just sharing knowledge and both being passionate about doing the right
by people.
Absolutely. Likewise. that's a passion we both share. it's been a really fascinating conversation, Kevin. I've really enjoyed it. I've learned a lot as I've said. Where can people find you if they want to learn more about wealth builders or SSAS?
The easiest way is wealthbuilders.co.uk. There's a podcast, is Wealth Talk. There's a plethora of information that we give for free, books for free, webinars for free. The podcast is free. We've had over half a million downloads now. So lots of impact we're trying to make. And little by little, people find their way to a point where the time is right for that.
momentum to start.
Speaker 2 (42:15.47)
So we don't mind if people go down the outside drifting a little bit, but if they're in the right circle, they'll eventually find something, go, I can act on that. That's really what we live for is getting those small actions that people will take that lead to bigger actions because wealth building is a journey of transformation. People literally transform.
and people.
their own lives and the lives of others. And that's why I
continue to do it despite my age, despite my wisdom expression and my sort of when people cheekily say, why are you still doing this when you're financially independent? Because love the impact that I have in the different when people become financially independent. It's a whole world control, which is important to me, but that freedom that you have. So we are wealthbuilders.co.uk.
seeing the difference that it makes.
Speaker 1 (42:58.616)
and then.
Speaker 1 (43:04.29)
you mentioned is just very powerful.
is the best place to take a
Great stuff. And I really urge people to have look at that. Subscribe to the podcast and all of the other resources Kevin's mentioned because WealthBuilders gives away a lot of good information. So I think that's a good time to wrap things up, Kevin. Really great having this conversation with you. I really enjoyed it and I will see you next time.
Okay, look forward to that and thanks again for the invitation.
today.
Speaker 3 (43:35.982)
We hope you enjoy today's episode. Don't forget that we are constantly updating our resources inside the WealthBuilders membership site to help you create, build and protect your wealth. Head over to wealthbuilders.co.uk slash membership right now for free access. That's wealthbuilders.co.uk slash membership.