In today's episode we are joined by Mike Davis, a man with a long career in business and investing. Make sure to tune in if you want to know how to build wealth by collaborating with others, which is often more enjoyable, profitable, and faster.
Wealth-building is more enjoyable, profitable and almost always faster when you collaborate with others, and that’s the topic of today’s conversation between Kevin Whelan & Christian Rodwell. Joint Ventures are the 7th Pillar of the WealthBuilders unique ‘7 Pillars of Wealth’ framework. You’ll hear Kevin share another of his famous acronyms to help you remember the formula for doing great JV’s, and today’s guest is Mike Davis - a man with a long career in business and investing where working with others to help build both his wealth and the wealth of others has been integral to his success.
Featured Guest: Mike Davis
Contact Mike: hello@bildoo.co.uk or www.bildoo.co.uk
Resources Mentioned In This Episode:
Solving the UK Housing Crisis - www.bildoo.co.uk
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Kevin Whelan's Join Venture Formula:
W - win/win
A - alignment
T - track record / trust
E - exit strategy
R - relationship
S - structure
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Unknown Speaker 0:01 The purpose of wealth talk is to educate, inform and hopefully entertain you on the subject of building your wealth. Wealth builders recommends you should always take independent financial tax or legal advice before making any decisions around your finances.
Christian Rodwell 0:19
Welcome to Episode 50 of wealth talk. My name is Christian Rodwell, the membership director of wealth builders and I'm joined by our founder Mr. Kevin Whalen.
Unknown Speaker 0:27
Hello, Chris 50 no doubt, you know when I play cricket in school, I never got 50
Christian Rodwell 0:35
Well, today is your lucky day. Yeah, I know. So nearly a year's worth obviously we did take a short break last summer and Christmas for a couple of weeks. So we did celebrate our one year anniversary. Just a few weeks back but yeah, great to hit this, this sort of half milestone here. And we haven't been found out yet Chris. No, yeah, no and hopefully not today though. Because We've got another fantastic guest joining us a little bit later on today and was moving through the pillars army. Now Kevin,
Unknown Speaker 1:06
well, you know, 50 episodes to get to pillar seven, it was quite a means we, we put a lot of effort into to try to share all of the processes. And I guess it means that, you know, wealth building, if you really try to understand it, you can't do it in a week, you can't do it in a month, we're only showing you can't really do it in the year. It's a it's a long term committed thing. So I'll just remind people you know, to stay true to their reason why keep focusing on that because, you know, when you're out there facing the real world, if you want it enough, you'll get it done. If you don't want it enough, you'll find excuses and that's what we see that's out there. So what we want to do is try and give you a good knowledge, good thinking maybe a bit of inspiration and insight or two, but in the end, you know, it's down to you but this is a great One drum benches is one of the most powerful, isn't it? Because it's the power of more than one indeed. And I mean, we're certainly we're not finished with, with business and IP. Hopefully, we'll have another couple of really exciting guests in the next couple of weeks. But certainly, we wanted to touch on joint ventures now. And
Christian Rodwell 2:21
you came up with a formula. Kevin, I remember this from a few years ago, which was something that really stuck in my head. So I'd love if you could share that with with our listeners today.
Unknown Speaker 2:30
Oh, you mean my waters formula? Yes. Okay, up to test the old memory banks, Chris.
Unknown Speaker 2:38
So this is what the whole essence of collaboration is leverage. And you'll realise that nobody gets wealthy without leverage. So if people can work together, then that's where leverage can flow from and we came up with a structure, a nice easy to remember pneumonic As a good teacher will always do. And you remember the crisp years later, right? So yeah, what a bad thing. So let's spell out the word waters, WA, t e r s. And the first w stands for Win Win quiz. So it means synergy. It means that the outcome of two people is more powerful than the outcome of one. But the key point about synergies, you have to discuss it. And as we'll hear from some of the insights into Mike and I would say as you go through the podcast today, and we hear from Mike listen out for the things that he says kind of unprompted, he doesn't know off formula, we didn't share that with him. But you can see that as a really, really strong expert in the field of joint ventures he's touching on these things. And the synergy means you have to really understand what if it's two people, let's make it easy. What two people want from the arrangement? And it could be financial, it could be social. It could be speed, it could be enjoyment and there's a whole raft of different ROI guys that are there if you think about the return on interaction return on intellect return on impact. There's so many and return on investment of course, and, you know, Mike share that, you know, there's there's real power, particularly in startups, the startup of one is 50% more likely to fail than a startup of two. So so why not be thinking about connecting and collaborating with somebody to get a shared win? So when when is the first one question
Unknown Speaker 4:46
I want to point to make or you want me just a crack on?
Christian Rodwell 4:50
No, I think that cup that covers that well, so the second one would be the A
Unknown Speaker 4:55
Yeah, which is aligned values. Because you know, the whole point about Building relationships is the word build, and relationship, which means you take your time, you don't zap a relationship, it doesn't just happen. It's not a blind date here, we're talking about deep meaningful relationships with consequences, you know, positive and negative. And I'll cover that in the s. But when you're dealing with that connectivity, you want to make sure you have shared values. So you take your time, you look at complimentary wealth dynamics, so you're not the same, you've got differences. And those differences mean that you get that sort of inflection, that insight that comes from your ideas, connecting with somebody else that just reflects it back in a slightly different way, which helps you make distinctions and we've definitely found that Chris working together, haven't we that? No, yes, it's true that a lot of the you know, the IP that is embedded in wealth builders, you know, was it came from me, but you've really sharpened it, you've honed it, you've made it more accessible. So you know, you've been a great asset to me, and I've been great asset to you. So that's what I mean by line values. And we didn't just jump into bed together. Chris, we took a while, didn't we? Right? You know, a few years before then Oh, yeah. Okay. Like, you know, like the sound of what this guy is doing, like the sound of what you're doing. And little by little, we just found a way to turn that collaboration into something more structured. So, you know, I'm pleased about that. And I'd say, yeah, take your time, but find people who have shared values. And that can often be a real flag to say, you know, this is a, this is a good thing. And if somebody's got misaligned values with you, then that should be an easy flag to say this is probably not going to be a right fit for a long term. Joint ventures, joint ventures are about the long term, not about next week, they're about you know, assuming that is going to be for a very, very long time.
Christian Rodwell 7:03
Now the T i remember that one that's track record. So I'm guessing here, Kevin, this is all about due diligence.
Unknown Speaker 7:08
Yeah, it's all about due diligence. I mean, particularly if the joint venture is you're putting more you're say you're putting funding into somebody who's got in got an opportunity, you need to do the due diligence on that. And we could probably do a whole different podcast on due diligence and maybe actually quickly should because it's quite an important part of the overall you know, the turning of the wheel, isn't it stage number four, the turning of the wheel is that due diligence so you know, we help people look for things you know, in track record. And, you know, from testimonials and assets and liabilities and credit checks and language checks, all that sort of hygiene factors. But the real essence of tea is trust, you know, you've got to build a feeling of trust that what you want They can deliver, and so on. And when you get the track record and the trust mesh together, then you know, you've got a real good sign that, you know, collaboration is going to work for both sides. Mm hmm.
Christian Rodwell 8:13
Yeah, that makes sense. Okay, he is for
Unknown Speaker 8:17
exit strategy. Chris. You know, when you go into a building, you know, look for the exits, you always have to look to the exits in any business venture, whether it's a property venture, whether it's a, you know, a business venture, and I've seen many mistakes, and I'm sure Mike will refer to mistakes made them myself, actually, you know, when you create a joint venture relationship, you know, where you don't have all you you just don't think you need the legal arrangements in place, you know, the proper contracts, the proper documentation, and I'm sure Mike will have one or two words to say about that. So you have to have an exit strategy and ideally, multiple strategies because, you know, a relationship in business can be as deep and meaningful, financially and emotionally as a relationship in life, you know, so you have to go into that with that kind of open mind and they open eyes about, well, what what if the relationship doesn't work? What if the person doesn't do their part of the bargain? What if the values misaligned? What if the trust breaks down and these happen in life? So you need those exit strategies. And I think all too often people get in a rush to build or to start a relationship and they don't take the time to put the foundation in place.
Christian Rodwell 9:45
Okay, and I think the backbone has been relationships as net and believe they are, again, covers this area,
Unknown Speaker 9:53
whereas you know, it's obviously one of the key ROI, isn't it and one of the key freedoms in life in the seven freedoms that entrepreneurs and wealthy people seek. And one of the key ones is, of course, there's time, there's money, there's location, and many other things we've talked about before, Chris, but one of the key ones is to build wealth with whom you're going to enjoy that journey, you know, so you can do it with people that you really will enjoy the experience of that. So, you know, you get to see how that relationship grows. And I think it's a great thing when it when it does work out well. And it adds an extra dynamic and an extra return that return on the interaction between two people. So it usually leads to a lot more. And sometimes, you know, the relationships can can extend even beyond a one to one relationships, you know, wanted to, they can get even bigger content with teams and so on. So, that's a joint venture, isn't it, creating a business where you've got teams around you?
Christian Rodwell 10:57
Yeah. Okay, and the s to finish Something having
Unknown Speaker 11:00
a structure. So like, you know, just touched on business for a moment, Chris a business is a bit more complex, isn't it, then me lending money to a third party? That's a bit that's a joint venture, but it's not as complex as a business. And the more complex the relationship, the more complex the structure. And therefore, the greater the need for that legal representation. To handle you know, so what is the expectation the When, when, you know, how are the values enshrined in the document? What are the exit strategies? How will the relationship work? One of the things that Mike talks about, which I don't think I hear anybody talk about actually, is something he calls a risk register, you know, which is how to manage and essentially keep keep and maintain a control over what risks are being continually evaluated, really because when relationships and everything breaks down is where things are not clear. So if you've got a very clear picture of what the risks are, that are being taken on board and you build that into the structure and your exit strategy, then you can manage risk and, and the communication can break down when people don't manage risk. You know, that's when relationships in business fail is because somebody doesn't, somebody goes wrong. But people just don't talk. They start kind of hiding from each other. And I think we've seen that as well. Chris. So you've got wanted great if they work well. And Mike is a great exponent of, of joint ventures he knows a thing about Mike I met Mike A while ago few years ago, in fact, immediately resonated with him when he was speaking on stage and I'll share the stage with him. And you can tell when you listen to him, he's a quiet spoken gentleman, and he's a Maestro of what he does. But he doesn't blow his own trumpet. You know, he's very much a ethical entrepreneur. You'll hear from him and why don't we zoom on over have a list of what Mike Davis has to say. And then do a little bit of a debrief at the end, Chris.
Christian Rodwell 13:07
Yeah, let's go there right now. So Mike, welcome to wealth talk. Great to have you on today. Thanks, Chris. It's so it's great to be here. Thank you. I'm looking forward to our conversation today around the topic of wealth and joint ventures. So why don't you kick us off by just giving a bit of background as to how you first connected with wealth builders?
Unknown Speaker 13:25
Yeah, I've got a history over a few years. In particular with with Kevin, we've shared a stage a few times, mostly a property meetings and we've talked around our respective attitudes to wealth building to both financial assets and to property. So I think it's kind of a relationship that's built from there. I think essentially, it's that I share a lot of a lot of Kevin's views, I think on diversification and risk control and so on. So it's just a natural natural course over a few years. I think.
Christian Rodwell 13:58
Right now, Mike, somebody Grand probably be useful for our listeners in terms of, I guess your qualification to speak about joint ventures. So would you mind sharing some of that?
Unknown Speaker 14:07
Sure. Absolutely. I think I'm going to talk a little bit, I guess a bit more broadly. And joint ventures has a particular kind of register in property because there are, it's actively discussed at various meetings. I think there are many ways of seeing joint ventures if you like, it's the power of more than one. If you think I work a lot with startups, I coach CEOs I'm an angel investor, as well as being a property investor and through through builder, which is what my current most active area that these are all effectively teams or joint ventures or I'm a co founder. So joint ventures permeate many, many aspects of the things that I do so I guess, in the sense of being a project leader of being part of a team now which we I co founded with a group of people, that's essentially a JV I've worked with property kind of business partners for more than a decade. So I've created a lot of joint ventures being part of a lot of teams. So that's where I would say my my qualifications are I've been involved in markets and property for more decades than I would like to admit to. So those areas all together really.
Christian Rodwell 15:21
Now, I guess there's a big difference between an informal partnership which is on a handshake, and something a bit more formal beer contracts. So what are some of the things that people should be really, you know, understanding when they're going into business with somebody else, Mike?
Unknown Speaker 15:36
Well, I think I think it's really important to understand if you like the gravity of it, I think you have to think very carefully about how much you're meshing together your financial futures, you have to think very carefully about the totality of the dare I say the downside as well as the upside. I think there are huge potential upsides in joint ventures, you know, the sharing of knowledge, the sharing of risk But of course, you're also to some extent sharing potential profits. I guess because of my large corporate history, I have certain techniques and habits in that that I like to bring into joint ventures. So we'd like to be quite formal around shareholder agreements around the creation of risk registers. So I think it's very helpful to think in advance about the things that can go wrong, as well as the things that we go right. And people you know, sometimes have a tendency to be optimistic, which is, which is great and positive, but also you have to plan for what might not be optimal as well. So, careful attribution of of the tasks, you've got to think carefully about how you're setting the thing up what skills you're bringing, to the the joint venture, they don't have to be that sometimes there's an argument for them being similar. If you if you're too kind of relatively relatively new investors, just numbers can help. It's a lonely kind of process being self employed on your own and the rest Failure of startups with a single founder is about double that whether or two, for example, so there's a power in, in having more than one head thinking around problems, of course with once you really want to find is a skill base that is complementary, not exactly, exactly the same. So sometimes you may find one person who's maybe a little bit more of the practical side, the other one might be more of a planner or a financial type. So a good mix of skills, not complimentary, not necessarily exactly the same. I think it's important. I would stress also doing due diligence on people. It's not creepy, it's important to understand the person who's opposite you and there's various ways of going about that if people are part of various companies, of course, you can search on Companies House, many people are part of property networks where you can have a sort of quiet word if you're thinking of getting involved with someone financially. It's a bit like a, you know, a marriage. You know, you don't want to go straight in there. You want to have a period where you're getting to know each other and understanding and, in general, I would say don't, don't be rush to commit to something that's particularly financially. And sometimes you hear people sort of enter the arena saying I've got x to invest, and you just kind of hope that they just take time to get their goals, right. And also, of course, to understand the goals of the other person, and you need to know what the other person is getting out of it. If you're unclear on that, then that can be a risk, that can be a risk and also can lead to a setup that isn't optimal for everybody. One thing you can do, of course, is to set out very carefully what the respective roles and responsibilities around the joint venture are, what each of you expects the other to do. And something that sometimes large corporates do is what we call a DCI matrix, they decide consult in form. And with a very small team, there may be you know, maybe it's a little bit formalised to say the difference between decide and consult, but all it says is if it's a D, it means you may have to have to have the final say on a particular area where you're stronger, but in general, you'll probably discuss everything. But sometimes that can be helpful in knowing who's supposed to be doing which things. And I personally like to look for a balance of kind of energy and sometimes also someone to be frank money involvement as well. You need to think, does the other person really have skin in the game? Now, in theory, you'd think if someone has looking upside, they try hard for the upside, generally, it's a little bit of the fear as well, that's, that's valuable. You want someone to be committed to something financially. And then if they've got skin in the game, they're going to they're going to pull out all the stops to ensure that it goes well, or at least doesn't go really badly. So it's important to think through scenario analysis, risk management, I can talk a lot about those areas a bit more formally, but you want to work through the potential scenarios on which you're basing assumptions. untested assumptions, can be really deadly to projects in general enter jayvees in particular,
Christian Rodwell 19:56
and other any common mistakes you see, I think you've covered a lot My bet for someone who perhaps is looking at partnering up for the first time are there common mistakes that you see people rushing into it?
Unknown Speaker 20:08
Ah, yes a few I think just in general people being in sometimes too much of a rush to, to kind of deploy their money and I see this sometimes there's a fantastic new boom around the SAS pension. And I think there is there's real power in in those for people. And I just you kind of hope people take their time kind of sample who's out there. Sometimes you hear people say, Well, if you've got a good project, the money will come to you. I've got to say that my experience is more that if you're the one with the money to dispense, you'll kind of get to see a few projects to take your pickoff. So, take take your time, you'll get to learn what's out there. Spend time to find out what what makes people tick, to do your due diligence, but there will always be another good project. I don't assume that it has to be this one. But equally Don't be too scared. You know Grasp the nettle, build slowly from scale and get your habits right and then build scale. That's what people always say, around startups. And the same thing definitely applies to to joint ventures. This is it's a bit I said, I said before, it's a bit like a marriage, get time to know what makes them tick. You can formalise the process around what their goals are. You can use wealth dynamics, you can use de martinis approach where you're looking at seven areas of life, find out what their hierarchy of goals are, most of the people in property we're searching for wealth building will have building wealth, very high up there, or they will have wealth as a as a bridge to something else. If it's something different, you probably need to just nail what it is that they're searching for and that so I think that's a valuable exercise and getting to know people maybe in general, but for JV partners, in particular, I would stress that it's worth finding out what makes them tick, whether they're kind of You, me too, or whether they are a useful variant from you and sometimes just writing down the scale bases of a team or a JV partnership can be really valuable in understanding what they're bringing to the party.
Christian Rodwell 22:07
And in your experiences, Mike, are there any examples where you can share how our joint venture has really helped you in your business life for your property to to actually help you build your wealth?
Unknown Speaker 22:19
Oh, God, absolutely. I mean, I think I can think of particular kind of long term property buddies and partners where, you know, we bounce things off of each other, it's someone you can share your highs with and your loans with. So when when you're feeling when you're when everything seems to have gone wrong that month, they're the ones selling telling you about the things that you you've got, right. And then equally, if you ever get a little bit ahead of yourself, you're getting a little bit kind of cocky or something, they're the ones who will gently bring you back down to earth again. So it's, it can be an emotional bridge and an emotional support. I don't name the names, but there are people for me who've been huge support for me when when I've been sort of building up scale, there may be people who've supported Did you financially sometimes just people who've shared bits of knowledge, one critical bit of knowledge is worth literally seven or eight figures, I cannot stress too strongly about the value of mixing. I was talking about mindset, knowledge and network and mixing two sets of those is immensely powerful. It's more than just the sort of the square of if you like, it's the cubic, just even just the two of you. So every time you get involved in a JV, you're you're tapping into that complete, extra sort of mental capacity and reservoir. And if you've ever been part of one of those team exercises, corporate ones, where you take people somewhere to kind of go and kind of problem solve the most amazing thing it's not the people who think they're very clever, who end up generating the great ideas. It's it's they come in from multiple places, and it's the power of a collective intelligence and problem solving that some that's really valuable. So if I think about it, specific areas, I think it's just the day to day discussing issues discussing regulatory change discussing licencing talking our way around, sort of mortgage problems or, you know, you know, just tenant stories. Sometimes you feel like, you've got so many things going wrong in a project product portfolio, and you bounce it around a buddy. And he says, Well, have you tried this? Have you spoken to him? to them? or? Yeah, I just, there are just many, many examples like that. And just the power of teams to sometimes put you back in your box and sometimes lift you up and things are things are going going, you know, going a little bit more difficult. So I hope hopefully, that's specific enough that I mean, if I think about jayvees, in particular, I mean, the new company, we're working on the moment building apps. jayvees are absolutely part of our business model. We're out there looking for smaller and newer developers to partner with. We have the corporate experience. What we're looking for is people with sites people with have an idea of what they can put on them. And we are determined to have an impact on the housing problem in this country. We're looking for lots of small developers to work with. And we're going to specialise to some degree in jayvees, at least for the next few years. So we want to personify what jayvees are about and to share best practice and basically,
Christian Rodwell 25:18
have someone listening now might they're in a position where they really feel they need to or want to partner up with someone other than attending networking events. Do you have any tips for how you actually go about finding a joint venture partner?
Unknown Speaker 25:31
Yeah, it's funny. I don't think there's any kind of secret sauce to it. I think it's usually just I'm a big believer in just kind of letting things flow. I go and just chat to people at meetings. I don't usually go there with a specific agenda. I kind of find to funders. I've got to find one person who's a specialist in groundworks or something. I just find that naturally I get chatting to people and that works. That works for me. I think in terms of JV partners, you share what you're doing. I'm a big believer in sharing, sharing my knowledge, and I share it pretty liberally. I speak a lot, I do a certain amount of media work. So I'm passionate about sharing what I have. And I think that brings brings people to you naturally. And even if you're, even if you're very new to property, just sharing what it's like to be new, can be valuable to people who've moved on. And I think, I think just the process of sharing, communicating, you almost can't do too much of it. Sure, you may have more to share value when you're more experienced, but you won't get more experience without talking to people and it's a phenomenally sociable, and generous community. So get out there to one of the meetings and share it with people there. And as you know, if you have knowledge, formalise the sharing of that knowledge, write papers, do webinars, all of these good things that you've seen with social media and social media training if you've done that, so, share, talk, speak with an online Hot i think i think if you go there with an agenda, people kind of pick up on that. So I, I personally, just will always go and just just chat and talk and so on. And I find that works for me. You have to be yourself, I guess.
Christian Rodwell 27:14
Yeah. And I guess that honesty, it pays off, because you never know when you might just exchange a few words and two years, three years, four years down the line that might come back around and that conversations remember,
Unknown Speaker 27:24
I find that again. And again, another key thing is at times that I'm really tired, I'm thinking, ah, you know, do I really want to go spend a couple of hours talking about something that I didn't think had an interest in, I dragged myself down there. And sometimes, that's when you most of all find the most incredible contact or the most incredible piece of piece of knowledge. I think all the big turning points of my kind of career and life have kind of happened when I've just said, What the hell, you know, what's the worst thing you could happen or why not? And you do it and you're energised by something within 45 minutes and you're really, I find I'm generally really glad that I've made the effort to go and do that. You know, Pete, people are the source of business. It's a it's a people business. It's a cliche Oh my god, it's true.
Christian Rodwell 28:07
I think that sums up the the entrepreneur spirit, you know, it's really having that drive to just keep on pushing on even when, you know, things are against you. And as you say, that's when those lucky breaks certainly appear.
Unknown Speaker 28:21
But that kind of takes you back again to the understanding what the key goals of people are. Because if people drive them towards one of their most important goals in life, that's what keeps them going when when times are tough if they're kind of interested, but not committed, which I think is a key, you know, a key determinant the difference between those if they're really committed, they will go the extra mile when they're when they're down on their luck, they just kind of a almost a persistence. You know, they can't help themselves keep Push, push pushing when they're tired and, but those are the ones who ultimately breakthrough because if it was easy, everybody would would already have got there. Again, I know you've been Is this a million times? But to me, it's absolutely true.
Christian Rodwell 29:04
Yeah. So our focus today has been on joint ventures, Mike, but I know that you've been building your wealth in multiple pillars and for people listening now, just a final word on, obviously, multiple pillars being a position where you have to worry less because you've got recurring income coming in from from different angles.
Unknown Speaker 29:22
Yeah, no, absolutely. I think that's part of the reassurance it's good practice to be strongly diversified. Even if people you know, if people are in property, they want to think about multiple strategies, long term income strategies, short term trading type strategies, but I have quite a strong advocate for people not to have all of their wealth in property. There are specifics around property. It's a fabulous asset class, it's, you know, it's highly geared double, but there are times when the property market itself can become a little bit of a wasteland for a period and that's happened in the past. I'm sure it will happen again in the future. So I like to mix it up with financial assets of various kinds as well as property. I find what I learned in one is a great value to me and the other and vice versa. I find it puts me in different networks, people in in financial asset classes are very interested in sometimes what you're doing in property. But people in property can learn valuable things from what you do in in, in your financial portfolio as well. So I'm pretty active in, in both, although I have to say my financial strategy is primarily what people call passive but that's the subject of another whole discussion. I think, you know about what constitutes passive and active passive income, where the property can never really be passive income, again, is an interesting debate, I think, diversification sharing knowledge across asset classes and with other people. absolutely key to that dude, do your due diligence. Get your formal processes, right. Have a have a nail down shareholder agreement. Don't scrimp on professional help. Do not just make use of templates legally, please get yourself a proper shareholder agreement. Think about the unwinding of a JV legally it's a legal question. contract. contracts are not easily avoided, they don't just disappear because they're inconvenient. So think about what you're getting into run the risk ideas, talk about the scenario plans B through E if a doesn't work at all of those are good practices from the financial markets, and they're equally important in property.
Christian Rodwell 31:17
It's my I gather, you've been involved in impact investing as well. Would you mind sharing a little bit more around exactly what what that involves?
Unknown Speaker 31:24
Sure, Chris. So this is a really important part of what I'm doing both in the financial areas, but also in property impact investing is really taking what some people call ESG type statements or environmental social green, which is a way of large companies kind of trying to make sure that they're fulfilling certain social goals. But impact businesses are primarily about those social goals. And they're not charities, they're actually profit driven businesses, but they're trying to engineer socially useful outcomes as well. So in the financial area, I'm involved in businesses Like like open bionics or which is a company that makes robotic arms for kids who've lost upper arms, or companies that are doing breakthrough medical technologies. So they need investment, the private sector is has been very active in providing that type of investment for those kinds of businesses. So I'm invested in around a dozen of those by big my biggest project in properties is build do which is an impact property business. We're an impact developer, because we're actively wanting to engineer change both to the building industry using modular techniques or what we call em MC modern methods of construction, very efficient buildings, very energy, energy efficient, that create the create the chance of our building lots of both environmentally efficient, but also lots of cheaper housing with new technologies. So in property and finance, impact investments been quite an important part of my life recently as well. And as I say, it's a So much for profit, but we're looking to engineer social good at the same time. And I really like that interplay between the two. You're not you're not having to compromise profit at all, by by doing good things
Christian Rodwell 33:12
as being very valuable today. Mike, thank you very much for sharing your knowledge with us.
Unknown Speaker 33:16
Thanks, Chris. It's been a pleasure.
Christian Rodwell 33:19
So interesting there Mike really echoing pretty much every step of the waters formula then Kevin?
Unknown Speaker 33:25
Yeah. You know, I think he's just an exponent Isn't he have joint ventures and you can tell that I mean, he makes some very, very eloquent points. I love the point about the cube devalue, you know, the power, it's not the power of one on one equals two, it's even bigger than that. I also love to another point that he's reflecting my own values, which is why I resonate with him is you know, he's, he's a very successful man. And, and you can tell that he's got investments in many businesses. But the humility shines through and he seeks connections between Also always looking to add value to others, you know, you get the impression that he goes along and talks at meetings not necessarily as a speaker, but just to go and meet with people because he enjoys that he's like seeking out that ROI. Remember I mentioned to Chris, the ROI of your only one relationship opportunity or idea away from a transformation in your wealth. I think that's true of Mike he seeks it, he's still got that sort of, you know, spark of the journey of to seek things out, but in an unselfish way. And I think that's the key to adding value. All too often joint ventures are spoken about in I suppose the property arena, where in many cases you know, somebody wants the money, and they want it really really quickly. And the drive in the energy is all focused around me, me me getting my result my result my result, and less about the wee wee wee and I think that's the challenge. I think, when I see people talk to me about joint ventures, it's almost always In the context of property in development, and that's where I think problems can arise. Because he says, Take your time. Right. And he refers to the relationship like a marriage, I think, you know,
Christian Rodwell 35:10
yeah. And you can also see there, I'll see when he was talking about the impact investing, and some of the projects he's passionate about and involved in now. And that really just defines the the movement through the levels, doesn't it as you start to move up through the levels, you begin to think about the bigger causes out there. And I know for Mike, he was really asking the question, you know, what is one of the real issues out there and housing and the lack of social housing is a real big issue. And that is now what he's focusing on with Bill do
Unknown Speaker 35:40
Yes, he's absolutely focused on that. And I've seen some of the projects and, you know, I can see how the way that the company are building their projects, you know, are aligned with those values. It's not just a let's do it and make some profit and it sounds like it's good. The way he would frame frame I think is we're a good business but doing business for good. And I think that's a really nice way of summarising really what Mike is all about. And, and you can tell he's a professional and he suggests right the way through that. Us professionals, you know, don't use templates don't use dodgy documents, don't use somebody else's document that they've crafted because it protects them. If you if you look at a joint venture, you look need to look at that joint venture from both sides and create documents don't just accept the first document that comes along.
Christian Rodwell 36:31
And I asked Mike, perhaps difficult question of, you know, how do you go about finding a joint venture? I know there's no one answer there. But certainly networking and being around like minded people. And if anyone isn't already a member of the wealth builders community, that's a great place to start connecting with people who are thinking along the same lines about building wealth. And as we said earlier, it's not a process that you can rush, but it's certainly a good way to start connecting, and then building upon that relationship as time On
Unknown Speaker 37:00
Well look, as we see that everybody's got a different world dynamic. You know, Mike's naturally a people person. So he's very comfortable in networking meetings and kind of talking to strangers in the way that he does. He's got no axe to grind, but other people are not. So we have to, you know, reflect on upon that. And sometimes the community, particularly with wealth builders, where there's an online community, it's sort of slightly easier and you've got better time leverage, not waiting for a meeting. You're not bumping into people randomly. You're online with people who've got shared values, they've signed up to the wealth builder values. So that will be aligned values. Everybody's looking for win win. We know we're trying to bring leverage into play. You know, we've got the expertise in the back office with with me and you and excuse me, the rest of the team trying to help formalise these things and do the DD so you know, there there isn't really a better place in my view, if you like the idea of joint ventures then being part of what we do, and I'll also mentioned, you know, the SAS Alliance as well, SAS alliance.org is a great place for those people who are SAS trustees who, you know, don't want to be a professional trustee. They don't want to sit behind a desk and manage money. But what they want to do is connect, collaborate, get their money deployed in safe, enjoyable ways. And if you can do that, you know, there's going to be a great reliance and allegiance I think, between SAS Alliance and wealth builders moving forward because there's a need for people to get together. So we're going to be bringing meetings to places now Chris, aren't we I think we're going to have for next year. So quarterly meetings where we'll have decent sized events for people to get together if they want to come but instead of randomly networking, you know, there'll be inside a community which is truly a reflection of the values that wealth builders has and Chris, do you want to Put another connection back to our wealth builder values on this post.
Christian Rodwell 39:05
Yes, absolutely. So anyone who has joined already our free members area will have access to the new Declaration of Independence which many people have downloaded and seen the wealth builder values there and sign that and had it witnessed that I'll absolutely link to that again now. And yeah, it's it's a core core aspect of of our community.
Unknown Speaker 39:29
Exactly right. And if you are new to this, you know, somebody discovered us episode one if you discovered us in Episode 50 fantastic and welcome. Get your declaration of independence, you know, sign it, take a picture of it, send it to send it to Chris or post it on Facebook, if your company on Facebook if you're not that's okay. So we know that you know, you're sharing our values and resonating with our values and, you know, now probably thousands of people have now done that and we're delighted We hope that little by little, you know, one of these podcasts will be the catalyst for someone to take action if you've been drifting a little maybe. And the other thing, apart from drifting, which in the end, Chris, I don't think we can help drift is we struggle with the DI wires because the DI wires will often feel that the best way to build wealth is on their own. And I'm really gonna take issue with that. Yes, it's possible to build some wealth on your own, but it's faster, it's safer. It's definitely more enjoyable. If you collaborate and we're human beings after all, we're designed for collaboration. We're not designed to be self isolating, coronavirus. You know, it's it frustrates me really. So I really hope that you know, see the value in other people connect and collaborate and hope you'll do that and be part of our community. If so, we'd love to have to welcome you in with how to try and persuade some of the DI wires to be doing with others instead of doing on your own?
Christian Rodwell 41:03
Yeah, well, it's probably a good time just to remind everyone listening that we still have our competition to win a free place on the upcoming seven steps to wealth programme. One of the best ways to collaborate and work with other like minded people is to is to be inside of our members community. So yeah, head over to wealth builders.co.uk forward slash competition. And just simply put your name, email address there, you can see all the details of the programme, what's included. And, you know, we'd love to have you join us when we open up again at the end of March. Cool. So is that a good episode?
Unknown Speaker 41:37
Chris, have we covered off joint ventures at least to start and then we'll try and give real case studies intermittently, because we don't drift round the programme of wealth by just tackling each pillar one at a time and then we'll run out of time and we'll run out of content. There's always always always something new. somebody does something that And usually they're doing it with other people because Aren't they the successes we're seeing? There are some people just, you know, doing great stuff on their own. But generally, they're doing it in collaboration with others not least if they're doing property, you know, they've got to build a team. They've got a networking team, they've got a funding team generally mean the whole process of building wealth is almost always always better done by working with others and just doing it on your own.
Christian Rodwell 42:27
Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree with that one. So yeah, I've enjoyed that today, Kevin, and we look forward to next week's episode of wolf talk.
Unknown Speaker 42:34
Okay, see ya.
Unknown Speaker 42:38
We hope you enjoy today's episode. Don't forget that we are constantly updating our resources inside the wealth builders membership site to help you create, build and protect your wealth. Head over to wealth builders co.uk slash membership right now for free access. That's wealth builders.co.uk slash membership.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai