Wealth educator, trader, investor and entrepreneur, Marcus de Maria discusses how he started trading and investing, the importance of education when investing and what he believes to be the secret to building long term wealth using the stock market. Marcus now wants to help others around the world achieve financial independence for themselves and their families so that no one has to live a life worrying about money.
Wealth educator, trader, investor and entrepreneur, Marcus de Maria discusses how he started trading and investing, the importance of education when investing and what he believes to be the secret to building long term wealth using the stock market.
Marcus now wants to help others around the world achieve financial independence for themselves and their families so that no one has to live a life worrying about money.
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Unknown Speaker 0:01
The purpose of wealth talk is to educate, inform, and hopefully entertain you on the subject of building your wealth. Wealth builders recommends you should always take independent financial tax or legal advice before making any decisions around your finances.
Christian Rodwell 0:19
While Welcome to Episode 161 of wealth talk, my name is Christian Rodwell, the membership director of wealth builders. And I'm joined today by our founder, Mr. Kevin Whelan. Hi, Kevin. Hello, Chris.
Unknown Speaker 0:28
Good to be with you again.
Christian Rodwell 0:30
Yes. So today we are focusing on pillar three, which is the investing pillar. But we're not just talking about investing. Today, we're talking about the difference between trading and investing. And we've got a very special guest today, Mr. Marcus DiMaria.
Unknown Speaker 0:44
Well, Marcus is a consummate professional. And you can certainly tell that but you know, what's interesting about Marcus is he is very open and honest with mistakes he's made. And I think the one of the I suppose the hallmarks of a mentor, is someone who's not just walking the walk now, but telling you what they did in the past where they made mistakes, and listen out for those mistakes, because it's always better to learn from someone else's mistakes and make them on your own. Because the journey of trial and errors are much slower, much more painful, than if you can make distinctions and intellectual shortcuts that come from, you know, the eyes and the the actions of masters and would definitely say, in his space, you would, you would say Marcus is the master and his and his own space there.
Christian Rodwell 1:38
Now you'll hear us refer to pillars in the conversation today. And if you're a new listener, then I'll remind you to perhaps go back to the beginning of our wealth talk podcast, and certainly the first five or six episodes where we talk about the fundamental aspects of our process. And the Seven Pillars of Wealth. Sit right at the heart of that, Kevin, and as we say, we're focusing on pillar three today, which is investments, but it's about building wealth across multiple pillars.
Unknown Speaker 2:04
Yes, I mean, we, we always have a reason to focus on something because it's to dive a little deeper into the knowledge that you need. We all know that education is the precursor to building all wealth. It's that lag time, it's the investment of time and energy and interest, sometimes money in order to decide whether something is worthwhile putting into your own strategy. And we don't advocate any particular strategy of wealth builders, but we do invite people who have expertise in all. So none of the things that we say, today would be opinions were and certainly Marcus, who's obviously talking about his areas of expertise. He's not saying you should just do one thing, either. It's very clear from his description, that wealth and even talks about pillars without necessarily knowing that's how we refer to them. And think he got a bit of a surprise when we number them. But but of course we do. Because we know there are seven and only seven ways to build wealth. And it's easy for us to teach that. So definitely, if you can you listeners out there, try and commit to memory, the seven and only seven ways to build wealth. Don't forget, if you can help me find number eight, a case of very fine champagne will be winging its way over to you if you can help me to discover the next pillar of wealth.
Christian Rodwell 3:30
And new asset really is digital currency crypto currency. And this is an area that Marcus has been focusing on for some time now. And he teaches this now to the students. So we're going to be talking about crypto today, as well. And I think it's probably time that we head over to our conversation with Marcus DiMaria. Marcus, welcome to our talk today. How are you?
Unknown Speaker 3:51
I'm really well thank you. I'm really looking forward to this. Yeah,
Christian Rodwell 3:54
it's an absolute pleasure to have you on Marcus, I've, I've known your name for many years, I know you've spoken you are an author, a real expert in the field of investing, trading. And we're gonna really dive into the difference between trading and investing today. And also look at this hot topic of cryptocurrency and even hotter over the last couple of weeks, right lots of stuff in the news so we can get your views on this, which be really great. Now, you know, as I've already said, you're very well respected stock market and wealth educator, you're financially independent yourself, and you're fulfilling your purpose, which I think's really important, which is to teach others how to do the same. And you'll founder of the investment mastery. And that's one of the leading trading and investing education companies in Europe. So why don't we start with you know, why'd Why did you start that up? And who's it aimed for?
Unknown Speaker 4:44
Well, actually, I didn't really mean to start it up. I was trading or starting to trade and learn and as I started making profits, which by the way, took me a long time, I have to tell you, I just didn't want to take money out of my account. And and so people started asking me questions and then It was first one on one. And then you know, I remember in the living room one Saturday, or was it a Sunday having like nine people around the dinner table and my, she became my wife, but my girlfriend at the time and basically said, Okay, what are you doing exactly, you know, inviting people in the house all the time. And I said, Well, you know, cashflow and all this kind of stuff. And she said, Look, if you're gonna start a business, then do it properly. Almost on business, but okay. And that's what we did. And actually, we started off on top of a gym. So one of the programmes that we did was the wealth workout, which was, you know, me with full time regalia in the gym, boxing gloves, and everything that was quite fun. So that's how we really started, you know, and it is one of the pillars that people need to learn, I think, you know, so so, yeah. And they don't know about trading and investing seems to be something that's like, ooh, mythical, and, you know, it's the city people, and we best give them our money. And why why are you giving them your money? Why?
Christian Rodwell 5:54
Yeah, we talked about that a lot, you know, people delegate to others, whereas, you know, wealth builders about taking control and learning this and education, which is at the heart of I think, you know, everything that both you do, and we do as well.
Unknown Speaker 6:07
I wish they didn't delegate, they abdicate. They basically go you take control of my money, and oh, that and it's almost like, then they can blame them if they lose it, but it doesn't help does it? I mean, you might as well, I remember in the 90s giving my money to a company, because just because they had this amazing brochure, oh my goodness, it was just so glossy, and all the graphs and it was an amazing name. And I didn't know. So I gave them my money. And a few years later, I was down 70% i How is that even? And long story short, I thought, Okay, well, I can lose 70% by myself, I don't need to pay anybody 3% management fees a year for losing me 70% Plus, I probably learn something out of it. What not? Because they never tell you what they did wrong or saw the markets difficult, you know, so So I thought I can do that. I'm sure I can do better than minus 70%.
Christian Rodwell 6:58
Yeah, well, it's often the catalyst isn't there? And was that the catalyst for you, Marcus? Or was there something further back? You know, that really set you on the on the child?
Unknown Speaker 7:08
One that was definitely one and and you know, a lot of people are gonna say this, you know, I went on courses like Tony Robbins, for example, back in the 90s. First one was Cardiff UPW, 2000. Only 2000 people, you know, were there. And, you know, and then they start talking about these things, and it go really, okay. Because if you can make money when markets go down, you know, and that kind of really hooked me. How can you how can you do that? You know, that was it for me? I said, Yeah, I want to, I want to know something I can make money going up and down. Yeah,
Christian Rodwell 7:44
so I guess, you know, explain to us what is the difference between trading and investing marks?
Unknown Speaker 7:50
Well, for me, it's it's just as simple as trading is more short term. So you're buying, selling, buying, selling. And we always say that you'll be in there for days to weeks, whereas investing is more long term. So that might be months, two years, and we've been lucky over the last few years. Of course, since 2009, we've been in the longest bull market since the history of the stock market, you know, so we haven't had much of the kind of going down stuff. And so it's really been months. But what might be coming up now. Might be Yeah, finally, you know, we might have to be in there for a few years. It just delays the percentages that we get, they will still come. But you might have to wait a little bit longer if we go into a bear market.
Christian Rodwell 8:35
Yeah. And what are some of the different skills required? And is trading suited to everybody? Do you see people who kind of pick it up any easier than others?
Unknown Speaker 8:45
Yeah, so So I think investing is something that most people can do. But trading is a little bit different. Because you need a lot more focus, you really need to get out when you're supposed to get out. You also need to have a stoploss you know, this electronic order when you get in at this price. And I love that, you know, to have this stop loss like a net, you know, safety net. So yeah, you want it to go up as much as possible. But you also want to, you know, cut your losses. And those are the two golden rules, really, if you want to really put trading into into two sentences. It's these two golden rules. So the first one is, you got to cut your losses, like, as soon as you're in law, so we say 1% of your entire portfolio. So let's say you have a 10,000 pound portfolio, you shouldn't be risking more than 1%. So 100, that's it 100 pounds, obviously, you want to make a lot more, but you only want to risk a little bit. So that's the first thing and then the second thing is to let your profits run as long as possible. Right. So if you do the two, you're going to do very well. And people said to me, but Marcus, I do let my profits run and I said I know but you also let your losses run. So you're not doing you know the small loss and the big game You're doing the big gain and the big loss. So that doesn't work. It's still one on one. Okay. But then some people said to me, but Marcus, I do I get out immediately. I said, I know. But I've noticed you also get out of your profits immediately as well. So that they come out nice and nice. As soon as the oh, I've made, you know, 3%, you know, 5%? You know, that's more than I make in the bank. Yeah, but you can't do that you're doing what we call it a one on one risk reward ratio, what you really need is you need a 123 or 45678, you know, the losses need to be small. And the profits need to be really big. So, and a lot of people don't know that. They just go in. And they go, and I said to them, so why did you go go in at that point? I had the money. Yeah, it's like, Come on, man. It's not because it's money. It's because is it at the right price? Has it fallen enough? You know, because you were saying before, we should talk about Kryptos? And what's happening in the market right now? Well, yes, let's do that at some stage when you're ready, because actually, we want to buy when markets go down. Not not when they're going up. But most people we are wired not to buy when markets go down. We're wired to panic and sell when markets go down. So it's actually the opposite. So it's a lot of mindset.
Christian Rodwell 11:20
Yeah. And, you know, people may think that it's difficult, and of course, anything is until you've had some education from people who are already successful. But the technology plays a big part in this as well, doesn't it?
Unknown Speaker 11:32
Well, nowadays, you know, when I started in the 90s, it was, I don't know how anybody made money. Or maybe it was simpler than I Yeah. But but but basically even having a conversation like this with a student, or I can literally share my screen. And if they can't see my screen, they can share their screen. The way I learned was, I was on the phone to an instructor in the 90s. And he was saying, you know, this line, and I'm like, What line? You know, you're looking at your computer, I'm at home looking at my computer, I don't know what you're talking about. It was a nightmare. And now we have access to technology. I mean, it's just amazing. You know, you want to quickly look at Microsoft, you want to zoom in on the one minute chart, you want to zoom out and we didn't have any of that, you know, when we first started and I sound really old now Venter, but it's amazing. It this is the best time to learn. And I agree with you, Christine. It's all about education. It really isn't. That's, and really I almost say, and that's all it is really. So what's stopping you being like somebody in the city? It's just you haven't had the education. That's all. It's really simple.
Christian Rodwell 12:37
Yeah. And what does it look like then in terms of your teachings? Markers? So if someone who comes to the investment mastery all the crypto currency, which is a separate programme I know you offer, and how do they actually learn what's the process,
Unknown Speaker 12:49
things have really changed, you know, because what we used to do is used to have live events and workshops and things like that. And because of COVID, we just suddenly had to change the business to everything. So we have a whole club around either cryptocurrencies or the other one is around, you know, gold and some precious metals and oil and stocks, what everything's do with ETFs, and all that good stuff, which funnily enough, doesn't move very much people think the stock market is very volatile. Because cryptos is really volatile. And to answer your previous question about what do you need, you know, as as a trader is you need to be okay, with volatility, things going up and down. Because if it goes down, I want to buy and if it goes up, I want to sell so you, you want that. So the way things have changed for us and and I think in many ways, it's better, is everything is still live, but online. So so the courses that we run, they are now you don't have to fly in, you don't have to be in hotels, you can be home, and I love it, because people have their whole families. You know, we have we have one family with 12 family members, you know, from grandparents to parents, and uncles, and I think Emily's, like 12 years old. And, you know, whereas, you know, you wouldn't have taught people, you know, flying over having hotels and you know, sitting on a three day course, whereas here, you can do that. And so that's the thing that's really changed the most. And I think it's better. So as technology has really helped.
Christian Rodwell 14:15
Yeah, and we've talked about difference between trading and investing. But how did those two work together? Obviously, if you're building up profits in your trading account, do you suggest people you know, diversify that into different areas?
Unknown Speaker 14:28
Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, already diversifying. It's all about diversification is so so, you know, in stocks, if you say well, I'm in five different stocks, but they're all technology stocks. So you're all on the mastic and it's just little things like that people go oh, I didn't didn't think of that really. And so diversifying there but then also diversifying, into you know, even Kryptos Are you also doing stocks and shares are you in precious metals? You know, are you buying an ETF in oil which is doing extremely well at them? limit. And then outside of that we talk about, you know, your entire portfolio. Make sure it's not just trading and investing. We have, I mean, a fairly large, I guess, double digit property portfolio, making sure that it is diversified there as well. We have businesses, so yeah, it is important to diversify for anybody, we always say, I think, I think it might be different to what you say. So let's see, we say you need to have at least three pillars, like minimum minimum minimum, think you think of a table, like one is like, You must be joking to what are you going to do? But three, it starts getting stable. And then it really starts. So it has to be minimum three. What do you guys so you say as many as possible? Well,
Christian Rodwell 15:41
one of anything is risky. But I agree that when you have three, it's like three legs on the store. Right? That's really the other stability. So I think yeah, yeah. So, you know, I know outside of investing, you obviously have businesses as well. So you know, you've got other pillars in play, Marcus. But let's talk now about crypto because this is a hot topic at the moment. I guess really, crypto has been around a long time, but 2017 was when it perhaps exploded into the mass market. And that's five years ago. Now. What have you seen in those last five years?
Unknown Speaker 16:14
Amazing, lots of ups and lots of downs. And coming back to our previous comment about just volatility, just embracing volatility, you know, being comfortable with the fact because think about it, what you really are looking for, what is volatility mean? It means uncertainty, right? Why is it going up? Why is it at this price, and now at this price, and now back to this price? That means people don't really know what price it should be. So what I'm really looking for is I'm looking for something that is as gives me as much certainty as possible, but it's volatile. And it's like an oxymoron, because normally they're too extreme. So that's really what I'm looking for. So what are the top coins? And the biggest mistake that people make, of course, is to say, Oh, well, this one's cheap. Because again, because that said bitcoin is what random you know, let's say $20,000. And, and there's another one, which is naught point naught naught naught $3. Well, that one is going to be cheaper. That's not necessarily the case. Because it's to do with market capitalization. I don't want to get too technical, but it just means that what is the price times how many of the shares are actually in existence? If there's one, well, then that's the market capitalization. But if there's billions of these things, then is that times the billions. So it's how many of them and by the way, that's the same in the stock market as well. There's no difference there as well. So that like that, even there, this Whoa, I just went for the cheapest. Okay, but how did you work out the cheapest while the price? That's already a big mistake, you know, and so there was just some simple, simple, simple concepts. But what have I seen, I've seen lots of ups and downs, lots of ups and downs. And that's great. But people out there hate it. Because they don't understand that if it goes down, you can buy a pair of jeans, that was at $50. But next week, it was in the sales at 25. And for some reason, it's like they do it on a day to day basis in the shops. But for some reason, when it comes to money, people go a little bit silly or crazy or do Lally they go like, Oh, no, you know, you can't do that. And I'm like, Well, no one said you have to put a lot of money in what people don't know is that in Kryptos, you can start with $10 Just you don't have to have 20,000 to Buy a Bitcoin, you can buy a fraction of the Bitcoin, you know, they cut up into 100 million pieces called one Satoshi. So it's things like that. It really is all about education. Christian.
Christian Rodwell 18:38
Yeah, well, everyone loves a Black Friday sale. Don't know when, as you say in the shops, but it's slightly different when it's, I guess a bit more of an unknown quantity to people. Again, all comes back down to education. So okay,
Unknown Speaker 18:52
you know, what's really what's really funny? Because because you just said that about Black Monday stuff, because it's Black Monday is a Black Monday, whatever it is Friday, yeah, Friday, there's I knew it was one of them. I had a one in seven chance, Black Friday, which I never do anything with, because I don't want any of this stuff, because I would have bought it already. But anyway, so that's the point, you will probably spend money on something you go, well, it's discounted. So I'm gonna buy it, it's junk, it's gonna go to zero, probably. Whereas we buy assets that have a very, very historical chance of going up. If you think about Bitcoin, going up an average of 170 Depending on who calculates it 170 to 200% a year since it started, you got a pretty good chance in a sale for it to go up. Right? It's already been there. It's average 200% Over the last few years, actually 13 years. And now it's at a discount. I think people need to do their research, I think.
Christian Rodwell 19:48
Yeah. So your long term view of of cryptocurrencies is they're not going anywhere.
Unknown Speaker 19:55
Well, first of all, Blockchain isn't going anywhere. And I think that the payment mechanism is decentralised cryptocurrency. So I don't think they're going anywhere. People are talking about NF Ts, and the metaverse is being a verb big thing. I am sure it is. But it's too early. You know, this is speculation. You think Kryptos? or speculate this is gambling, you know, one on one. So I haven't really gotten involved in that. But we're, I have a 13 year, kind of track record. I'm good to go on 13 years. Yeah.
Christian Rodwell 20:28
Yeah. Now, I'm interested just to get your your thoughts on recurring income, because this is very much at the heart of of how we help our members achieve their financial security, their financial independence, and it's all about identifying well, how much do you actually need in order to be, you know, secure and independent, but then that requires an amount of cash flow being generated from assets on a monthly basis. So, you know, how can that work from trading from investing from the strategies that you teach?
Unknown Speaker 20:54
Yeah, so I always differentiate between your growing and and cashflow. Those are the two things that people probably want, you know, I need cash flow now. And I want to make sure that later on when I'm not fit, so that I have enough money, and if possible, recurring revenue, which would be even better. So if you're investing, that's much more long term, so you can't rely on that recurring revenue coming right now. So if you want to do that, you have to do two things, especially in Kryptos. One is trading much more short term and whatever you think about, you know, The Wolf of Wall Street, and all of those kinds of things that's not trading or at trading is really like, you can almost hear a cricket chirp in the background, it's like click here, I'm going to have lunch. Now, you know, if the market does the work, you don't. And then the other thing is called staking. And staking is something which translated into stocks as dividends, because they give you three, four or 5% a year in the stock market. And that was needed, by the way, of course, because the because of inflation, we didn't need that. And the banks used to give us that, but that's all gone now. So we need that just to offset inflation. So with staking, which is the equivalent, you can get eight 910 20%, even a year on cryptocurrencies, it is new, it's only been going for, you know, let's say five years or so. So there are risks involved. But on a daily basis, it's getting increasingly more stable as the infrastructure is being built. It's like the stock market, you know, years and years ago. And so yes, staking is another thing that you can do to get your 20% or 10%, or whatever it is that you're looking for a year. So those are really the main things when it comes to trading and investing in cryptocurrencies. Now. There are other strategies, for example, on stocks, and this is something I did for years and years and years, which is covered calls. So you basically have your stock, and then you sell a call option. And that gives somebody else the right to buy the stock from you. So that's another thing that you can do. And you're looking to make three to 6% a month on that. But the problem with that, and that, and that sounds good, because it's a month. But the problem with that is, of course, in the meantime, the stock is going up and down. So the one thing that you have to understand about the stock market is that it moves. And as soon as you are okay with that, you're good to go. But if but it's not like a property, it really does go up and down and up and down, and sometimes up, up, up, up, up, up, up and sometimes down, down, down, down, down. And it's all cycles, and it's all good. So you just mustn't get greedy, you stick to the good ones, and you'll be absolutely fine.
Christian Rodwell 23:39
And perhaps that's one of the dangers where people get trapped is they get fixated on watching the market all the time. And that's not the right way to approach
Unknown Speaker 23:47
a call because the market needs to do the work. In fact, when I first started, I thought I didn't know any better. So I thought, oh, it's intraday trading. That's what I thought you had to do. So I was there and doing exactly what I said you shouldn't do. You know, I took my profits felt really good. But when it went down, or, you know, it'll turn it'll turn. And I mean, I have stories, I was rushing home, went into the market, it was cold outside, it was warm inside, there was the worry of the computer. And I guess I must have dozed off because a couple of hours later, I was like what, and I had made more money in that time than I had the previous two months. And the reason was, was because I didn't get in the way. And so I realised I said the market needs to move. I got to stop doing this looking all the time. And I moved to end of day strategies, as opposed to intraday buy, sell, buy sell, which all sounds very exciting and glamorous, but it actually isn't. So, you know, that was many, many years ago. So yes, absolutely let the market do the work. And in fact, our strategies are such that it doesn't matter if it goes up or down. So we don't put all of our money in at certain price cuz you don't know Do you whether it's gonna go up or down. We can use all The indicators and blah, blah, blah. But if it goes up, what we will do is we will put a little bit in. And then if it goes up, then we're sad. Because actually, we're in profit. And people go, why don't you set so actually I want it to go down, which is against what everybody thinks, you know, because what I actually want to do is I want to, you know, if you have a property and you can get it the half price, you know, you buy two properties, one at this price one at this price, now, your average price is here. So so so you know, we want to do that, because when the turn then comes, then I am in profit earlier. And if I wanted to get this price, whether I bought here or here, if I bought down here, I now make more profit. So, but like you say, you can't keep watching it, you've got to let the market do the works. And that's what we say 20 minutes a day. And on our club, we have it we actually have a timer. And when you when you log in, you click the timer. And then at the end of 20 minutes, it actually tells you to go and live your life. Because Because trading and investing life is not about trading and investing. It's not it's just a vehicle to get you where you want to go. 20 minutes of it. That's it stop, stop, stop, stop, stop.
Christian Rodwell 26:15
Yeah, I was gonna ask you about the the time requirement there. And I guess like anything at the beginning, there's a little bit more time required to actually learn things to get going. What's that learning process normally like?
Unknown Speaker 26:25
Yeah, exactly. So for the first month, you're probably going to be spending a lot more than 20 minutes a day, obviously, you need to fit it in to where you can write. But it actually doesn't matter when, and it's from home, you don't need to go anywhere, which is great. So probably, I don't know, 45 minutes a day. And if you don't, for the first month, if you don't have that, that's fine, I'll just take you two months, just do half and it'll take you a little bit longer. There's there's no, everybody's different. And people have different learning styles as well. So we're not club, we do the three day course. But we have, you know everything online, you've even got a recording of the three day course. But you've also got the actual home study course. And then you've got all the calls during the week, you can jump on to your cause of my traders. And so it really is there to suit everybody. I would say that's how we set it up.
Christian Rodwell 27:16
Yeah. Now you've become financially independent through pillar three investment pillar and all the strategies that you've
Unknown Speaker 27:22
done. Is that number three for you, is it? Yeah, yeah. I'll take it, I'll take it.
Christian Rodwell 27:29
And I'm really keen just to kind of encapsulate everything you've shared today, what you believe is the secret to building long term wealth using the stock market.
Unknown Speaker 27:40
I believe that the secret is taking a leaf out of Warren Buffett's book is not be pressured by time. So what I mean by that is he doesn't actually matter mind if the stock market were to close in the next five years or longer? So he's not, he's not like, oh, it's gone down, I need to do something. He's bought a good company. So I'm going to stick with it. There are cycles, yes, it's gone down now. But guess what, that only means it's going to go back sometime in the future, and it'll come back down again. And so therefore, as long as you don't have this pressure, to make money and cut corners, and, you know, I need to do this fast, and I need to be a lot of people think they need to be multimillionaires, you know, before they're, you know, 20 or 20. But as long as you you can become extremely wealthy, but don't have put that pressure on yourself because you'll make mistakes. And so that, yeah, I think that is a kind of a, an overview thing. Really? Yeah.
Christian Rodwell 28:39
Yeah. No, thanks so much for sharing everything with us today, Marcus, if someone wants to find out more about the programmes that you offer, the investment mastery, where's the best place for them to go?
Unknown Speaker 28:48
Yeah, just go to investment hyphen, mastery.com. And you'll be able to, I'm sure download something or other actually, I'm not sure that you can, I'm not sure. But anyway, have a go investment, hyphen mastery.com might be a good place. And again, one thing I want to reiterate is that it is one of the pillars, right? So trading and investing, whether it be stocks, or gold, or commodities, or ETFs, or sectors or whatever that might be but it is one of the pillars because once you know trading and investing you can really trade and invest anything. So I think people they generally say Well, well, that's for people in the city. No, no, no, it's not actually it's actually for us, but they don't want us to think that they don't because then the gravy train is over for the city boys and
Christian Rodwell 29:35
and this is definitely something you don't want to be doing without some guidance. Just going in there testing out for yourself.
Unknown Speaker 29:42
Yeah, just the most well, if you don't have the rules, and there are five rules, which is you know, where do I get in? Is it here, here or here? Then at what price do I get in? You know, you can't just buy now because you have the money although people do and the next one is what how much money am I putting into this one this one and they're going to be different? Every Every time because of risk management, and then where do I exit with a small loss? And where do I exit with a big game? Those are the five things I'm telling you. Most people do not even have one of those, not even one. Now, what are you gonna do? Well, I don't know. And then it's all emotional. Well, you just can't make money.
Christian Rodwell 30:19
Absolutely. With rules. Perfect daily. Yeah, a clear plan, good support, great connections is always the way forward. So Marcus, thank you very much. Once again, great to have you on the show today.
Unknown Speaker 30:30
Thank you so much. Pleasure.
Christian Rodwell 30:34
Good stuff there. Interesting points for Marcus, as always, lots of references that I think tie in with our principles there. Kevin, before we start digging into some of the wealth, lessons from today, let's dig into some of our reviews and get a head over to Google reviews actually, for a bit of a change today, and pull out a review from fraud debt, who says I had a great experience working with wealth builders to set up my SAS pension, and learn about the options available to invest my money. It has been one of the best investments I have made, well structured educational resources, constant support, great community and overall extremely professional delivery from start to finish, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them.
Unknown Speaker 31:17
Well, that's very nice of Claudette to say so. And just on a point of interest, Chris, you know, when we're talking about diversification, for the most part, people who've got traditional pensions, you know, the workplace pension, the personal pension, and so on. They don't have any choices over what they invest in, or the choice is very restricted, and often restricted to what makes a recurring income for an industry, not a recurring income for themselves. And I think Marcus referred to it is abdication. I think you said delegation, and we often say that delegation leads very quickly into application, but Mark has jumped on that pretty quick. And he's right. Most people abdicate their money in their pension. So like Claudette, if you want to know more, find out a little bit more about the concept of SAS taking control, which is really what wealth building is all about, taking control of your pension so that you can choose how best you want to allocate that money, whether it's to business to property to intellectual property, whether it's to investing in the market, but even cryptocurrency, all of these things are becoming possible now, within the domain of the SAS pension. So essentially, from someone like Marxist viewpoint, Chris, it's opening up many more potential customers as well for him because more people can use their pensions to do small things. And I think was important to hear from Marcus that he said, you know, diversification is the key to our wealth. And we believe that to be true. And but sometimes diversifying, and learning with small amounts of money is really interesting, because it adds a experiential thing and an add some a way of making a distinction. And if you can do that with your pension where you've got tax relief, and then he gains you make a tax free. That's just an interesting pause for thought, I think.
Christian Rodwell 33:18
I guess one of the main differences between investing and trading is investing, you only make money when the market goes up, whereas trading can make money when the market goes down as well as up, of course, you've got options as a additional strategy there. But yeah, trading is something that I think a lot of people who don't have any experience, you know, sometimes slip up and key message from Marcus said was like anything, you've got to have a clear plan, and you've got to follow some rules. So you've got to have an investing plan.
Unknown Speaker 33:50
Yes, he does teach that and he went on to explain five principles. And while I won't repeat them, you can go back and listen to them. Most people I think are raised in a podcast recently, Chris or certainly newsletter of some kind, when we talked about the, the Hokey cokey, people don't have a rule. So they just dive in and dive out, they dive in and dive out and they head starts to spin because they don't have a set of rules to take emotion out of the way. So really critical that you create a set of rules and markers teaches his rules, we teach our rules. And to be honest, they're pretty similar. They're slightly different in the sense that when you're working in a specific market, you need a different set of skills, but the principles are the same. You know, diversification is key Don't, don't put at risk more money than you can lose. And if you're looking to understand how markets work, markets are always volatile to a certain degree. There's nothing that's guaranteed to go up well at the moment just prices I suppose. And when prices are going up faster than wages, then in the end, there's going to be trouble ahead. So you've got to get some rules and some clear strategies, whichever way you choose. And I think it's just interesting that this is another market, most people are already investing in the stock market. So why not learn the rules of the stock market, why not understand how to move from being a retail customer, to a wholesale customer, what I mean by that is having more knowledge, the ability, I think he called it, it's not just for city people, it's not just the Wolf of Wall Street and all those sorts of things, it's, you don't need to be an expert to know enough to understand how the stock market works. And it's very difficult to create recurring income because there's no compounding, the markets go up and the markets go down. But what Marcus is saying is, you've got to take your gains, you know, this is the essence of good business, is when you're in business, you make profit. And if you've got a traditional business, you can immediately think about that. And then you take those profits, and you reinvest those profits in a way to diversify your wealth away from a business. And we often talk as it occurs to business owners and say that it's not mutually exclusive, you don't just build your profit, then keep all the profit in the company. And then the company gets hit by something that then puts the whole company and all the profits you made in the past at risk, why not take some of those profits and diversify them, whether it's into property, whether it's into other businesses, whether it's to become joint venture, and a collaborator in pillar number seven, which is joint ventures, whatever way you do it, you should learn new strategies, and always take money off the table. And be aware that when you're making gains, you should diversify those gains. And he said exactly the same. But in the stock market, or in the crypto market, whatever market you're in whichever market you decide is right for you. Then you've got to understand where you are not every single moment of every single day. But over a period of time, I understand that you're up, you're down. And when you're up, make some gains bank, some gains that you're making and diversify that. And Marcus has done that you could tell not just in the way he does his business, which I know he's an expert in his field. But you've heard him mention a portfolio property. You heard him mentioned business. And you heard him mention he believes you need three, I think in today's very, very uncertain times, you probably need more than three, possibly four. But either way, just start with one, and then build another one. Because we always recommend, don't we focus on something to so that you can really immerse yourself in it, but have an additional strategy as well. Because with every asset, there's a lag time. So you might as well be invested in two. And then eventually you can get to three, and then you can get to four, and then you get to five, there's no rule for how many pillars it will take you to build your own security and your own wealth. But increasingly, though, you need it, a number of them to get to security, then that gives you the time freedom back doesn't it. It allows you to work on your own terms in your business work on your own terms. If you like your job or some form of self employment, you can choose those terms. And then it gives you a bit more time because in his activity with only 20 minutes a day, most people can spare 20 minutes a day, Kenny. I mean, put it another way, Chris, if you can't spend 20 minutes a day on building your wealth, you kind of deserve everything you get. Yeah, sounds harsh. I know. I apologise for that. But, you know, wealthy people have the commitment to take action more than excuses. And I don't I don't believe anybody hasn't got 20 minutes today.
Christian Rodwell 38:54
Yeah, and we know that time is one of the things that holds people back. So as you say, there is no excuse and also the technology that's available. So talks about your profits run, but also cutting your losses and using stop losses. So technology is there so you don't need to be sitting there. You know, watching you can have all of this set up and you can carry on with your daily activities, whatever they may be.
Unknown Speaker 39:16
Yeah, and we talk about stop losses as defence mechanisms in investing and I know Manish Kataria talks a lot about stop losses, and you can build stop losses in so that you don't just suddenly get out. Now I know Marcus had a rule. But you know, 1% of your overall portfolio. And that's a rule it doesn't mean you need to follow it but it's a rule a piece of guidance that somebody's giving. And I like it when somebody gives a rule, because while it's their rule, it makes you think about well, what's my rule? You know, I've got some clients who've got very large parts and they never risk more than 10% of their total in any one overall asset. That's could be a rule. So create a set of rules. rules for how you want to make your gains. But just as importantly, what you do when you make losses because you will make losses, it's not possible to just keep making gains. Right. So, Marcus said, You've got to love volatility? Well, I'm not sure about loving it, but I definitely agree you have to accept it and appreciate it and recognise that some assets are more volatile than others.
Christian Rodwell 40:22
Yeah, I guess without any volatility, the market isn't moving, and therefore no money can be made. So there needs to be a level of volatility for sure. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 40:30
Well, you know, money moves, values created from flow. Flow is volatility because it's something moving. So, you know, we talk about the cycle of money. We talk about the speed and velocity of money. And you're looking for when markets are moving, you're looking for pockets of opportunity, whether that's in property, whether that's in business, you we heard from Fabio last week, didn't we about his ability to switch gears and pivot around property. And that's the essence of good wealth building. And you can only do that if you've got the confidence to understand another education about how your asset works. You've got the support of people around you or a community. So you can talk about things so that you're getting a 360 view of what's going on. And you've also got the ability to tap into a community so that you can take action, and then you can see what's going on, all around you. Because that's how you spotting opportunities, because you're getting inspiration, if you're not an expert in it already from people like Marcus and others, where they're giving you a tip and you you kind of really thinking about that. And I'm always impressed as well by people who are experts who've invested with others, like he talked about investing time with Tony Robbins and investing in his own education. And I think again, that's a hallmark of a good mentor, somebody who's investing in their own education, who don't just believe in one thing.
Christian Rodwell 41:58
Absolutely. So we hope you enjoyed listening to today's episodes and do go and check out new investment mastery. If you want to find out more about Marcus's teachings, and Kevin, we will catch up Same time, same place next week.
Unknown Speaker 42:11
We will indeed and until then my friends see you
Unknown Speaker 42:17
We hope you enjoy today's episode. Don't forget that we are constantly updating our resources inside the wealth builders membership site to help you create, build and protect your wealth. Head over to wealth builders.co.uk/membership right now for free access. That's wealth builders.co.uk/membership
Transcribed by https://otter.ai