Kevin Whelan tackles myths about using pensions for property investment, emphasising the need for accurate information. He shares legitimate strategies, discusses wealth building, business challenges, and cash flow importance. Discover the value of community support and resilience in the journey to financial independence
In this episode of Wealth Talk, Kevin Whelan discusses the misconceptions and misinformation surrounding wealth building, particularly related to using pensions to invest in property.
Kevin emphasises the importance of seeking factual information and avoiding decisions based on hearsay.
He highlights legitimate ways to use pensions to invest in residential property, providing examples and dispelling myths.
The conversation covers various topics related to wealth building, business ownership, investment strategies, and the importance of cash flow.
Kevin shares insights on wealth creation, the challenges faced by business owners, and the significance of building cash flow for financial independence.
Join us and learn more about the significance of community support and the effects of resilience and consistency in the journey of wealth building.
Resources Mentioned In This Episode:
>> Brand New! Wheel Of Wealth [WT226]
>> Brad Sugars, Founder of ActionCoach, talks wealth & business [WT145]
>> Employee Ownership Trusts w/ Chris Budd [WT103]
>> How Fees Drain Your Financial Future w/ Manish Kataria [WT234]
>> Head 2 Head w/ Louise Hill, Co-Founder & CEO of GoHenry [WT237]
Next Steps On Your Wealth Building Journey:
>> Join the WealthBuilders Facebook Community
>> Become a member of WealthBuilders
If you have been enjoying listening to WealthTalk - Please Leave Us A Review!
Christian Rodwell (00:02.355)
Welcome to this week's episode of Wealth Talk. My name is Christian Rodwell, the Memship Director for Wealth Builders, joined today by our founder, Mr. Kevin Whelan. Hi, Kevin.
Kevin Whelan (00:10.574)
Hi Chris, good to be with you again. Are you feeling better because you were a little under the weather last week?
Christian Rodwell (00:15.315)
I was, yes. And yeah, chest infection. So, taking some medicine and feeling raring to go again today. Thank you, Kevin. And how was your weekend? I believe there was a lot going on.
Kevin Whelan (00:24.224)
Now just checking though, did you have something nice or a bit of vicks on your chest?
Christian Rodwell (00:29.139)
Yes, yes, girlfriend did a good job of that, yeah.
Kevin Whelan (00:34.862)
Talking about girlfriends, yeah, well there was a very interesting weekend which I managed to avoid very skillfully. So my son Michael who's newly qualified in law and he's getting married on the 28th of June. So he had a stag do and his intended name is Georgina, we call her George, lovely girl and they had...
a hen do. So my wife went to the hen do and I skillfully avoided going to the stag do. No way was I going to get roped in. And luckily he came back with all his widgets intact and all his hair on his body. So apparently the biggest thing that was bruises from playing Zorb football. Yeah, I just took myself in with a nice steak and a nice bottle of red and watched the Champions League.
Christian Rodwell (01:09.811)
Hehehehe.
Christian Rodwell (01:18.771)
Ha ha.
Christian Rodwell (01:25.427)
forget it.
Christian Rodwell (01:33.171)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Kevin Whelan (01:33.294)
It was a good game and I enjoyed that. You know what a football fan I am. So, no, it's a good, really, really good weekend. Thanks for asking.
Christian Rodwell (01:39.507)
Yeah, no, I'm just picturing you tumbling around inside an inflatable football. That's good. That's good. So today, we're having a good old wealth talk today because you've been out on the road, you've been doing lots of events over the last month, Kevin, and of course, you're always getting asked questions and there's insights and there's in particular a few that have raised your attention and thought we'd discuss them in more detail today.
Kevin Whelan (01:42.894)
don't. You definitely don't want to do that.
Kevin Whelan (02:04.366)
To me, you know, it's fascinating when you live your life in your head and you give information out, then you've got the clarity of seeing it. Right. So exactly how we create new content or we create curate content. We know the clarity of the message you want to give, but you're never quite sure how it's going to be received. You're never quite sure whether it gets distorted a bit. Do you remember the…
the old Chinese whispers, which is, you know, send reinforcements, we're going to advance. And it comes back as send three forpents, we're going to advance. It's a bit like that. And sometimes I get a bit surprised by the amount of misinformation and the misunderstanding that's out there. And I was doing a presentation to around about, what would I say now? 80?
or so, property business owners. And what was fascinating for me is the whole area of my work is all about creativity. It's about finding new ways to do things, new ways to look at things, new ways to evaluate things, and new actions you can take to make your journey faster, safer and more enjoyable.
And I was talking about SAS in particular because for property people it's a very powerful way of turning your pension into property. And I kept hearing people saying, surely this and I've heard that.
And it's almost as if somehow hearsay makes them down the integrity of the message I'm giving. And I'm saying, well, please, please, whenever you're building wealth, do not make decisions about surely this, because it's not surely that, because I can explain to you that whatever you believe to be true is not true. But based on fact, here's the evidence.
Kevin Whelan (04:17.326)
Now you've heard the evidence. Have you now changed your mind? Yes. OK, so try and avoid saying, well, surely. Or I've heard, for example, someone said to me, I've heard you can never use your pension to buy residential property. OK, who did you hear that from? And it's always somebody who's got a vested interest in the opposite direction or they just misheard something. And and again, I said, look, there are definitely rules to follow, you know.
But there are ways, quite legitimate, genuine ways, that you can use your pension to buy into residential property in at least four ways. You know, so would you like me to describe the four ways, says I, and they said yes, so I did. And you know, I won't give all four because it's, you know, it's not a treatise on SaaS, but you know, you can be over 55 like me and get your tax -free cash. You can borrow up to 50%, lend it to your limited company, and if your limited company does...
residential property, you could do that, or you can convert something that starts its life as commercial and then turns into residential. Yes, there are rules, but there's three ways right there. I'll give you the fourth one because you asked Chris. You didn't really, but you could borrow somebody else's. So somebody could lend you money from their life or their SaaS, and their SaaS could help you by being a bank and you become a borrower. And then their money, which is their SaaS money becomes...
Christian Rodwell (05:30.835)
Mm -hmm.
Kevin Whelan (05:47.374)
the source of residential property for you. The point is, it's not really about SAS, it's about in so many ways when I'm out and about talking to people, and I love doing it, and this guy was a lawyer, you know, so making, and you think, you know, they're into the detail, they wouldn't make a decision about the law based on, I've heard that, or surely this, you know, they make decisions based on research, case law.
finding out facts. And it's just interesting for me that that seems to be all too prevalent when it comes to wealth building, that there's misinformation that's out there continually. And it always fascinates me because usually the misinformation holds people back, never accelerates people. It's usually a break. It sort of impacts on the brain. It impacts on the creativity. And as a visionary within wealth builders, my role.
definition of a visionary is someone who sees things that other people don't see. He's to constantly be on the lookout, as I am all the time Chris, aren't I? For new ways to do things that will help people achieve a better result. You know, get more for less. And that creativity is constantly thwarted by what people miss here or here in a different direction from somebody else. You know, that's just one example, right? But I could carry on if you want.
Christian Rodwell (07:06.747)
Yeah. Well, I know you were at a business event talking to business coaches and there was a big aha moment amongst that crowd as well, wasn't there?
Kevin Whelan (07:19.598)
Well, yeah, and you know, it's an interesting one because the challenge with business owners, and we love business owners, people who run businesses, because they're so multi skilled, right? They've got to wear all the hats, spin all the plates, juggle all the balls. And they're in that place where, you know, that everything they're doing everything because instead of often creating structures around them, they'd be
They become the structure themselves. They become the very challenge that they're hopefully trying to eliminate when they get to a place where they can get the business to work without them. And one of the key messages that this group was a group of very good people with great integrity called Action Coach. And you may remember that I wrote a book with the founder of Action Coach called Brad Sugar, who's an Australian.
He always says something interesting to me when we talk about when you're in business, you need to be a master in your own niche. You need to be outstanding in your niche. And he says, it's mastery, Kevin, it's mastery. You know, with a really strong Australian accent. But when we were joking with the business owner coaches, I said, you know, the key distinction I like to make for any business owner, other than the stuff I always do, which is...
Make sure your business can work without you. Become outstanding in a niche and create streams of recurring income in your business if you can. And we were talking about most business owners don't do that. They're trading time for money. And I've heard some people argue and it's a standard joke in the coaching community that businesses are the only people that work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week for somebody else. And this is...
Kind of partially true. But the point that I made to them, and this is where the aha moment came for them, Chris, is I said, you know, whenever you look at the statistics of business owners who sell their business here in the UK, and I've discussed this on previous podcasts, I think, that only 5 ,000 businesses a year sell for more than a million. It's only 0 .1 % of them.
Kevin Whelan (09:46.958)
business population. The average age of the business owner who sells is 57. They're mostly male, by the way. But the average length of time, if I'm ever involved with the business and the coaches reflected this because I asked them in a group of like 50 coaches, I said, how long do you think a business owner will tell you it's going to take for them to get ready for their business to be sold? Right. It's not a trick question.
just want to know what you think. And I asked the very first person on the very first table, how long do you think? And he said, five years. And I said, that's exactly what they say. They say, I think I'll be ready, Kevin, in about five years. Then you meet them again a year later. Or I spoke to a business owner today, two years later. It's like, when you think about five years, right, it's always five years.
And I said, and I know this to be true, what I say to the coach, to the business owners then, and this became the aha moment for the coaches, was, OK, if it's going to take you five years to get your business ready for sale,
What if I could show you the most tax efficient, time efficient way to be completely financially independent in the next five years so that by the time you get there and your business is ready for sale, you're already wealthy. And therefore you've got two businesses. The business of the business in which you're engaged and the business of building your family wealth. And by telling...
the or asking rather the business owners to create what you and I know is the family wealth business. The name of their family's perpetual wealth, not the name of their temporary trading business. And when people get that and when they get they can be independently wealthy within five years from the proceeds of the cash flow in their business, which is often temporary and turn that temporary cash flow.
Kevin Whelan (12:01.069)
into permanent cash flow. That's my role when I'm talking to business owners. And they never got that. They never saw that the business owner can turn temporary cash flow, get the tax relief back on it. In other words, get the government to give them the corporation tax back and use that money to build their wealth. And they just never saw that. They just thought the only objective of a business owner is to sell their business. I said, no, they've got two businesses. And they went.
got it. And hopefully, you know, we'll be able to help the coaches put more tools in their coaching toolbox to be more effective, more able coaches for their business on the clients and serve them in a more interesting way, not just for them, but also for themselves as coaches. So they feel that they're adding more value, being more confident and actually seeing that in many respects, the coaches themselves.
could become financially independent. It's very difficult to be financially independent, Chris, when you're a coach because you're almost always trading your time for money. Whatever you're coaching, whether you're coaching businesses, whether you're coaching accountants, whether you're coaching people with mental challenges, whatever the business you're in when you're trading your IP normally, you're trading time for money. And it was just a fascinating debate and I found it...
Interesting because I see the clarity of it, but it's often you don't really get a chance to see the meaning of it until you have proper engagements with intelligent people asking great questions and then they get that distinction for themselves. Very satisfying to do that, Chris Anderson.
Christian Rodwell (13:45.499)
Yeah. Yeah. And that's an important point, isn't it? So listeners now can think about is actually, are they building wealth through capital or focusing on cashflow? And we focus on the cashflow because we know that when you can generate that steady predictable stream of cashflow from multiple assets, that you're not reliant on any one source of income, like in the business, as you say there, or some people reliant on that one source of...
employment, job income, work income. But cash flow is key and the difference between investing for capital and investing for cash flow. There are some differences, aren't there? And perhaps maybe we can run through a few of those.
Kevin Whelan (14:27.438)
Well, yeah, they're quite fundamental, Chris. And it's a good point because when people say I'm investing for the future, you know, what is what is an investment? And there are only two types of investment, really. And I'll relate that back to businesses in just a second, because I think there's a fundamental flaw in the business selling process. But when whenever someone is investing, they're really either investing for a capital gain.
or they're investing for the flow of cash. And we talk about that in the Wheel of Wealth, don't we? We've got a process in the Wheel of Wealth and we either say you're investing, you've got to know at the beginning, are you investing for a capital gain or investing for cash flow? Now cash flow is by far and away the best way to at least start as a foundation to intend to build wealth through cash flow, because cash flow, if you get it right, through the definition of an asset.
will be more predictable, more permanent, more effective and you can pass it on to the next generation as well. So it's got longevity to it. In other words, if you build an asset well, the income flow is permanent. Whereas when you build it and you think about accumulation, almost always you're subject to a whole area of different risks. Now let's go back to the business owners. Let's take our mind to the business owner who either takes guidance or doesn't. Right.
And I also mentioned to the coaches, by the way, there are two things that we wealth builders, me in particular, look to avoid. Like the three A's, avoid people who are arrogant. I know that. But what have you done? yeah, I know all about that. OK, what have you done? Because it's not knowledge that's prized. It's the action that takes from the knowledges.
So I don't like people who beat their chest and tell me they know everything when they haven't acted on it. And apathy, which is the act of permanently putting something off, not temporarily because you're spinning the plates and juggling the balls, but you just permanently never get around to things. Unfortunately, all too many business owners, I guess, including my father, who died as we know very young, just didn't get around to doing things. Anyway, when you have...
Kevin Whelan (16:50.574)
all your eggs in the business basket. When you think about it, are you building the business for cash flow or accumulation? Most of them say, I'm building a cash flow. No, you're not. You're building accumulation. You might have cash in the business, but it's just it's temporary profit because the profit isn't permanent. You don't make the profit and the profit stays in the in your business year after year after year after year. You do the work, get paid.
and then you make a profit on the transaction or the service or the delivery or whatever it is. So the real issue for business owners is they put all their eggs in the business basket and hope one day, someday to sell it.
but they're not in control of the selling price. Now, I believe business owners work harder than most. They put in all the blood, the sweat and the years, and more often than not, they don't get adequately rewarded for it. And I believe they should get a premium for putting all their rigs in that basket, taking the risk and working so hard. But they rarely do because when they come to sell, they often sell.
at a point when they need to sell. And if you need to do something, then you become slightly more.
slightly less in control. I was going to say more desperate, but you know what I mean. Because you are too tired, you're too old, you're too ill, you're too whatever, and you want to get capital out of your business. And more often than not, because you've lived it, the very essence of it, it sucked everything from you, you put a higher value on it than anybody else. Because what an acquirer wants, somebody who buys the business, wants permanent cash flow. They want predictability, but no...
Kevin Whelan (18:46.03)
Business has got it. So they will always down value what you value it at, which is why there's always this fundamental mismatch between what a buyer of a business puts on the value against the seller of the business puts on the value. It's not like a house where you can have a reasonable view of a Rick's valuation. You know, somebody values it properly or a stock market share. You know what they're worth. It's very difficult to value business. And when a business owner gets to the point,
And here's one of the big issues for me, Chris, which scares the bejiggers out of me. When most businesses that do sell, because the acquirer does not really truly believe the figures, right? They just can't believe them because they're taking too big a risk. If they're parting with the money, they will put some form of an earn out in the deal. So an earn out is...
I'll pay you this money, great figure for the business, but I'll pay you some now and the rest over time. Right? So now the business owner who was in control of the business makes all the decisions, you know, decides what plates to spin and balls to juggle. Now working for somebody else.
I couldn't imagine working for somebody else. I couldn't do it. And I'm sure lots of business owners who have enjoyed that control for decades in many cases just hate the idea of then having to go to work and report to somebody else as the MD in order to get the money. And for that reason most don't. And they don't get that second or third payment. So you have to almost accept.
What was the consideration upfront? You know, and it's just a... Can you imagine the uncertainty and the feeling you go through at that point? And my argument is be independently wealthy. Use the cash flow from your business. That's temporary to build permanent cash flow. That's wealth building. So that if you do sell the business, you're not desperate because you're already independent, right? So you don't need to sell it for the premium price. You can sell it...
Kevin Whelan (21:06.478)
for a reasonable price, or you can hold out because you're not desperate for the negotiation to play out over a certain timeframe. Or you could even consider other alternatives like an employee ownership trust, an EOT for short, where you can pass on the business to other people who are running it. And rather than get a lump sum, because you don't need one, because you've got a regular income, you can get tax -free income for the rest of your life from the business. Now, look, I've packed a lot into that, right?
All I'm saying is, to be independently wealthy makes sense whether you're a job holder, a business holder or a coach. You know, you just need to be, in my view, planning to build for cash flow, not building for accumulation. Now most job holders, as we know from pillars one, two, three, 95 % of the population, as we know, don't become financially independent because they put all their faith.
usually in one asset spread across two classes. They buy the stock market in their pension in their ISAs and they've got no clue how it works. And they hope that one day, someday again, they accumulate enough money and they measure their net worth. So you've heard high net worth individual? So I was talking...
Not too long ago, last week, I think, to a gentleman who I really have a lot of time for, he's called David. He's been mentored by me. And we were having a chat and he said, you know what, I always wanted to be a high net worth individual. I always kind of measured my success on my net worth. And you're telling me that's the wrong measure. Explain more.
And I said, yes, because if you build your life on a value, let's say you build a million quid. When the days when a millionaire was a big thing, right? It's not anymore. But let's say you got a million quid and you reach retirement, you got a million quid. You've accumulated a million quid. So your nest egg is worth one million and you're 60 and you've had enough and you want to pack it in.
Kevin Whelan (23:33.518)
How do you convert that £1 million, which is a value, an accumulated value, into an income stream for the rest of your life? Well, unless you want to give it away in buy an annuity, which, yes, it's possible, but most people don't want to do that because they give away all the capital and therefore they won't leave a legacy from that. They do something which is commonly known as drawdown. I call it the hot water tank. So imagine a new head, Chris.
a hot water cylinder. Right. And it's got a million. The volume is one million. You got one inlet valve, which is growth.
How many outlet valves have you got?
Christian Rodwell (24:24.371)
More than one.
Kevin Whelan (24:25.614)
A lot more than one. A lot more than one. Number one, losses. Does the stock market always grow? No, it doesn't. So you imagine you retired in 2008, you had a million quid. What did you have in 2009? 700 grand? You've lost third of your money in a heartbeat and you couldn't do anything about it because you were not in control. You weren't able to add value. You weren't able to stop that.
So you've got to look for something called sequencing risk, which is a risk that something goes wrong at the very time you need to convert the money into income. Won't get into inflation and all those sort of things because they're always going to be part of the economic wind that blows on us. So outlet valve number one is losses. Outlet valve number two, fees.
most people paying disproportionately high fees than they should do. So the only recurring income that's flowing is out.
Because if you're paying 2%, which is the average, people are paying you a million quid how much you're paying in fees.
Right? It's a lot of money you're paying your fees for no real value add. Right? So that money's gone. Now you're paying 20 grand a year for somebody to look after your money. Well, that's a reasonable income given the average income in UK in retirement is less than 20 grand. You know, this is a big part we're talking about here. And then the third one is you've got to spend.
Kevin Whelan (26:08.558)
Because you've stopped accumulating, right? And you hope the money goes up, but you're spending. And what do most people convert at? Well, if you were to go to an IFA and say, what do you reckon would be a reasonable income? If I've got a million quid, they're going to say 4%.
So you get 40 grand a year. You got 40 grand a year. What's actually happening is you're assuming it all works. The idea is your money should last. But what if it doesn't? What if the stock market goes down, the fees are too high and you need more money than that? You need 60 grand, say, to live. You're now spending 6 % of your money, which is then eating into your, so your cylinder is getting less and less and less and less.
And that's why...
The average drawdown in the UK at the moment, Chris, is 8%. People are drawing 8 % out of their pots. So it means they're spending their money faster than they can replace it. And they will run out of life before they run out of money. Now, what happens to your legacy if you run out of money? It's gone. You know, you've got no life lessons, you've got no wisdom to impart, and you've got no money left. And all of that...
hard work you put into to bring certainty into your life, you now have an uncertain and a compromised life. And that really hurts me to the core. Because if you switched your thinking from accumulation to cash flow, and focused on cash flow, and you didn't worry about the value of the asset, you worked out what was the cash flow from the asset. There's nothing wrong with topping up your...
Kevin Whelan (28:03.054)
asset from some capital, because you might need that for certain expenses, or you might just want the feeling of bolstering the value of your pot. But if you were to turn that into an income stream, and let's say you weren't paying so much in fees, and you were investing in a wide range of assets, right? So property, intellectual property, joint ventures, being a bank, crowdfunding, you name it.
I'm not saying what people should do, I'm just giving an example. But if you knew you were getting 4 % absolutely concrete, then you can spend the 4 % knowing that you don't have that risk of depleting your funds. But if you can make, by learning more, by investing in the biggest asset of all, which is your own brain, and you can learn how to get commercial property, let's say, I was looking at one today with a guy.
and 415 ,000 he wanted to spend on the property and the rental was 4 ,000 a month. Do the maths. Well, I know they're hard to do the maths if you're just sitting listening, but that's 11 .5 % on your money. If you can get 11 .5 % on your money, you don't have to spend 4%. You might spend 6 % or 7%. So you can double your income without taking any more risk. You see my point Chris, that if you focus on cash flow, then...
The right kind of cash flow will mean you never run out of money, the next generation can learn the same lessons as you, and you leave a much better legacy. If you do that as a business owner, you can be wealthy, so you don't have to sell your business, so you can keep it or sell it, it's up to you. And anybody who's a job holder does not have to live a life of uncertainty. And as our children live to 100 years of age these days, they're going to face this challenge more than anybody else in history.
And I think it's important for us to learn these lessons so we can impart those lessons to them. Do you know what? I always rant and rave about stuff, don't I? But I hope you get the point, though, that I sincerely want people to get creative and don't go, well, traditionally people do this. Surely people do that. And I've heard this, you know, do the research. Find out from people who think differently.
Christian Rodwell (30:05.555)
You
Kevin Whelan (30:26.094)
because you have to think differently to be wealthy. You cannot think the same as everybody else in lockstep from the job to the pension to the hope for the best. You can't do that. You're going to run out of money before you run out of life and your life's going to be uncertain. And that's not a life that I think is worth planning.
Christian Rodwell (30:48.627)
Very interesting, very thought provoking. No, very thought provoking. And as you were talking, Kevin, I was remembering podcast episodes that we've previously recorded, which may be of interest to our listeners now. Certainly the Wheel of Wealth, our method, which we teach to help you create either capital or cashflow. And a combination of both is good, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Kevin Whelan (30:49.454)
Run over.
Kevin Whelan (31:09.262)
Absolutely, get both. Cash flow first, capital second.
Christian Rodwell (31:13.331)
So I'll link to these episodes in the show notes. So if you'd like to take a look at those, click on your podcasting app now and scroll down. You'll see the links to the Wheel of Wealth. Also, Brad Sugar, we interviewed on the podcast. He's the founder of Action Coach. And that was a great conversation that we had with Brad. Employee Ownership Trusts, EOTs, we have interviewed and talked about that as well. And reducing fees. So all of those areas, really important.
Do click on the links and check those episodes out if you'd like to find out more.
Kevin Whelan (31:44.238)
And they all interconnect, don't they? This is the whole point about wealth, is you can look at things from many different angles and you can learn the lessons from many different ways and you compound the impact of all of them. Whereas if you just do things the same as everybody else is doing, you're not learning any lessons.
Christian Rodwell (32:02.995)
Now, before we wrap up today's episode, I'd like to read out a review that's come in this week on Trustpilot on the Wealthbuilders page. And this one's from John. And John says, I joined Wealthbuilders just over a year ago now. And I can say it is a wealth of knowledge when it comes to understanding finance. If like me, you are or not were financially astute. These are the guys who offer support and content in helping to build that knowledge.
The company always seems to be available to answer any specific questions and get back to you in good time. And more importantly to me, it's got a friendly feel to the company, which extends to being part of the Wealth Builders family. Only last month, Kevin took time to have a call with me personally about some specific questions within my wealth building journey. And I can honestly say he really took the time to listen and help unblock some of the issues I was having in my own mindset. So happy to have joined, happy to still be a member.
and happy to recommend to anybody who wants to start building their wealth.
Kevin Whelan (33:03.598)
Happy, happy, happy. So, you know, thank you, John. And I appreciate that. And this adds another point, Chris, that all too often, you know, we talk about business owners being in verified air. They don't always have a chance to talk to anybody because they don't want to share their challenges and problems with their staff members and team members often. So and then similarly, when we meet people building their wealth, they're thinking differently. And because they're thinking differently, they can be on their own.
sometimes actually in direct competition with their spouse or partner. So it's really important, particularly, you know, life lessons are always challenging. It's never not challenging. Like wealth isn't easy. It's really hard, but it's doable. But the fact that the lessons can be learned and you can surround yourself with people when you... There was a...
a guy that I just want to mention, a guy called Kevin MacDonald. He's a very good guy. I like him a lot. And he was saying almost the same point that Louise Hill made, which was resilience in consistency is the key. And it's the times when you need the help when things aren't kind of going according to plan, is when you need to surround yourself with that community, because they hold you up, they boil you up.
They help in times when it's difficult, not when times are really easy and you're smashing it out of the park. So I think that's a really, really good point that he made. And I'd like to echo that and thank him for making it.
Christian Rodwell (34:45.863)
Great. Well, I shall add that link as well to our conversation or your conversation in particular with the CEO of GoHenry, the children's debit card. And that's all there in today's show notes. So that was a good conversation. Thanks, Kevin. Appreciate you sharing those insights. And I know you're back on the road again in the coming months. So hopefully there'll be a few more that we can share with our listeners in due course.
Kevin Whelan (35:09.646)
Well, somebody else has got to listen to me, haven't they? Well, anyway, look, I tell you what I do like. I do like getting the speaker feedback because we asked for that, don't we? And I'm pleased that consistently, you know, people talk about Kevin explains complicated things in a really simple way, actively engages with the audience, not just a pitch, not a presentation. And we're so keen.
Christian Rodwell (35:12.083)
We are.
Kevin Whelan (35:39.374)
to give insights wherever we can give them that people can learn for themselves, but then tell somebody else that they get fit a stronger bedroom. Don't think, surely traditionally I heard from anybody else. They come back to us, they'll go find another community that can support them in the same way. So I just try and nudge people to get into communities where they can feel a bit more support.
Christian Rodwell (36:05.395)
And we've got the free Wealthbuilders community on Facebook. So if you're not already a member, search Wealthbuilders or one word and we'd love to have you join us. And if you want to find out a bit more about how we help our members, then head to wealthbuilders .co .uk. And Kevin, you and I will be back same time, same place next week with more Wealth Talk.
Kevin Whelan (36:25.038)
We will indeed my friend, until then, see you.