Head 2 Head is a segment on the WealthTalk podcast where CEO Kevin Whelan interviews top executives. They discuss personal journeys, challenges, and lessons learned. Simon Zutshi, CEO of Property Investors Network, shares insights on property investment, financial education, and the value of mentorship.
Welcome to Head 2 Head, the latest strand of the WealthTalk podcast where WealthBuilders' CEO, Kevin Whelan, sits down for an in-depth conversation with fellow CEOs from various industries.
In each episode, Kevin will delve into the personal journeys of these top executives, exploring the peaks and troughs of their business careers.
Head 2 Head is not just about success stories; it's about real-life challenges, resilience, and the crucial lessons learnt along the way.
Our guests share their unique perspectives on leadership, innovation, and the strategies they've employed to steer their companies through turbulent times.
Simon Zutshi, CEO of Property Investors Network, is the first guest on the Head 2 Head strand, discussing his journey as a property investor and entrepreneur.
In the episode, Simon shares how he started in property investment, the importance of long-term investing, and the love affair with property in the UK.
Simon also talks about his transition from being a property investor to teaching others about property investment.
He emphasises the need for financial education and the challenges of trading time for money.
In this conversation, Simon Zutshi discusses his passion for training and making a difference in people's lives. Emphasising the value of paid education and the importance of finding the right mentors and coaches.
Simon also shares his experience of selling a business and the lessons he learned from that process.
Resources In This Episode:
>> Property Investors Netowrk [Website]
Next Steps On Your Wealth Building Journey:
>> Join the WealthBuilders Facebook Community
>> Become a member of WealthBuilders
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Unknown Speaker 0:01 The purpose of wealth talk is to educate, inform, and hopefully entertain you on the subject of building your wealth. Wealth builders recommends you should always take independent financial tax or legal advice before making any decisions around your finances. Unknown Speaker 0:19 Welcome to Episode 233 of wealth talk. My name is Christian Rodwell, the membership director for wealth builders joined today by our founder, Mr. Kevin Whelan. Hello, Chris, good to be with you again. Today, we are bringing you a brand new series. It's the first Kevin of our new series titled head to head. So the idea behind it is almost like a CEO to CEO dialogue. Because often, and it's great that we showcase people in wealth builders doing great things. But for inspiration, sometimes it's good to look at those people at the very top of their profession, way past security, and basically running brilliant mission led businesses that can serve as education, inspiration, maybe even some guidance for other people who have, who want to get to know what's on the inside mind of some of the most successful people in the world. So we decided didn't wait to change the format. Big Give you a rest, Chris. So instead of you doing the interview, I do the interview. Hence head to head CEO, CEO, we've got a few people lined up. But I suppose the series is not going to be as regular as clockwork, because we need to get the right guests. And we need to get their their availability because they're much harder to get hold on as well. And of course, we want our own listeners to give us I suppose clues to who they would like to hear from so we've chosen our own first two or three people. And today's very first rockers. Absolutely. Today, we're very, very proud and pleased to welcome Mr. Simon zushi, CEO of the property investors network, a good friend of yours, Kevin, and rightful first guest on the head to head series. Yeah, I couldn't really think of a better one, not least because the sun has spectacular rise recently, not just with property Vista network, but with a brilliant business called Crowd property, and a fantastic new connection to expand and scale a business with the entrepreneurs Institute. And again, you know, we're very familiar with them. In fact, we use their tools every day, and our business through wealth dynamics, for those who've heard about wealth dynamics, just an amazing tool to help you determine whether you're in your own natural flow. So your wealth is building and growing in the direction, which is the least resistance to you. And we're very proud of doing that. And we in fact, we make that tool available to many of our members don't request so yeah. So Simon, great guests known for a very long time now. And I really wanted to showcase his rise. And also for him to give some very useful lessons as well that pretty much anybody can act on. And as you'll hear from Simon very down to earth, very practical. I said to him, before we set off on the journey, I said, Look, I'd like it to be my first one, Simon. But I need to dive a bit deeper. Can I go water normally won't go for a cat. So you'll hear you know, some of the questions I asked him, you know, we're a little tricky. But as always, Simon tells it straight from the horse's mind straight from the truth straight from the hip. He's an entrepreneur, and you can hear the cogs turning in his brain, continually, you know, the year that click, click, click, click click going on. But he's a very, very Unknown Speaker 3:55 clever man and an inspirational man to many. And certainly many of our members who use property as a primary way of building wealth, have taken advantage of the services of the property investors network, whether it's through their quarters and their education materials, or whether it's through the regularity of their networking meetings with now sort of 50 meetings across the UK and now expanding into different countries as well, all of which he'll talk about. And we actually recorded this in a very nice professional podcasting studio in London. And as you say, you really did dive in deep with Simon I've heard Simon speak on several occasions, and I definitely learned some interesting things, this interview that I didn't know about Simon so do head to wealth builders.co.uk forward slash 233, where you can see the full video interview, and we're splitting the interview into two parts Kevin, because it was it was about an hour long. So you really did dive into lots of different topics for assignment, and therefore we're going to play Unknown Speaker 5:00 Part one this week, and then we're gonna play part two, next week on the podcast. Are we leaving any cliffhangers, Chris, you know, like, like a good series would do? You know, I bet Tune in next week? Unknown Speaker 5:13 Well, all I can say is, you will definitely find out some things you didn't know. And, of course, Simon will talk about his background, how he got into property, why you can still make money from property, but also learn about Simon's business, as well. And some of the changes that have been happening over the last few years and what that means for Simon as a businessman himself. So yeah, plenty of interesting bits to hang on there for so let's get into it, then Kevin. And we'll head to part one of your head to head interview with Simon Suchi. Unknown Speaker 5:45 When I decided to do this, I knew instantly who my first guest would be. And it's the fantastic, Mr. Simon zooty. So welcome, Simon. Thank you, Kevin has very common to be really pleased to be here on your first edition. The reason I wanted to choose us because we've known each other for such a long time now. Yeah. And we I immediately resonated with your style, your integrity, thank you. And that really hasn't left me and we've got a brilliant relationship between we do ourselves and your business. So tell us about your business? Well, I have a number of different businesses, as most entrepreneurs do. My main business, I've started the main business I'm occupied most of the time with which I'm CEO of still is property investors network, and mastermind principles limited. So pin positivessl, is networking organisation, we created the very first networking specifically for property investors anywhere in the UK, back in 2003. And that's now grown to 50 meetings around the country, also overseas and Netherlands and also in Dubai. And then that's kind of linked very strongly to my use to be my business, and the training business, all about teaching you how to invest in property, we don't sell any properties. We teach you how to find great properties, how to raise a finance all the different various strategies. And we have various one day courses, three day courses, home study courses, and then our main programme is our property mastermind programme, which you're very familiar and you speak out for us as well. But of course, the world is a very challenging place right now, politically, geopolitically, the property market, people tell me is down, interest rates are high, you can't really get the mortgages used to get to all sorts of things like that. So why don't you just put your feet up and don't worry about it and sit on your hands band down the hatches? Well wait for everything to come back? Well, I'm in the fortunate position that I don't have to do anything. But I think you'd like me, we don't like to do nothing. I would go crazy if I just sat on a beach trying to go somewhere and as well, but I'll go crazy, and my wife would kill me, I'll probably kill her. And so I always want to be doing something. And actually, essentially, you should sometimes observe the masses and do the opposite. So right now, you're correct. You know, interest rates are relatively high compared to the last decade, although probably about the same rate as they were before the financial global crisis in 2008. When obviously, the world property markets crashed, for various reasons. And there are definitely more sellers in the UK property market right now than there are buyers. That's called a buyer's market, which actually means it's really good for buyers. So whilst many people are standing back and worried about relatively high interest rates, there are less buyers, so there's less competition. And that means you can buy property at a better price. So actually, right now, as long as you know what you're doing, it's a fantastic time to be investing in property and our clients who understand that are doing very, very well. There's some great deals out there right now. So why is there such a love affair with property in this country? Well, I think it goes back to you know, an Englishman, and his his home is his castle. And in many parts of Europe, there isn't this desire to own pot. In Germany, for example, most people rent. But in the in the UK, I think people want to have their own little piece of the gland country, their, their homestead, whether you want to call it and so it is a very aspirational thing for many people to own their own home. Now, not everyone could afford to do that, or not everyone wants to do that. And that's why there's very good strong rental demand as well. And in the UK, where we just don't have enough accommodation. And both political parties, the government conservatives and the Labour Party say that we need 300,000 new homes every year, we're building less than 200,000. So it means there's just not enough accommodation. And so whether you're buying to live in or you're buying for an investment, or you're looking to rent, there is this high demand. So even though we have short term ups and downs, which happens in any cyclical market, which property is if you look at the long term view, and if you read my book, property magic, which I know you have, what are my five golden rules number four, is we should always look at investing for the long term. Don't worry about short term fluctuations. If you're holding for long term, that's how you create true generational wealth. And I know you're very big fan of that. Absolutely. So where did this starting point for you come from? Because there's obviously a catalyst and everybody to move from where they were Unknown Speaker 10:00 to where they are now. And that's true in the whole wealth building process. It's all in transitions from one to another. How did that start for you? Tell me about what you did. As a student, where did you go? What did you do? Well, I think starting point, I think I was quite entrepreneurial when I was younger. One of my hobbies as a youngster was magic. And I got given a Paul Daniels magic trick when I was seven, and I just really got into the hobby, my dad thought it was a great hobby to have. And he encouraged me to save money. He said, Every penny, every pound you save, here matches magic, because magic tricks are very expensive to buy. And so we would go to a magic shop called Davenports in London once a year by some magic tricks, and he had matched what I say. So I guess he installed that saving principle in me. And I then actually joined a magic club attached that magic shop for young magicians when I was about 12. And it was amazing. Although I look back, I didn't realise that I that was actually my first mastermind group. Because there were other young magicians and we were learning from each other learning and progressing much quicker than we would on our own. And I started doing kids parties. And you know, when I was 1415, I'd be you know, Saturday afternoon doing a six year old kids party. And you know, when you have kids, and you have parties, 20 kids is noisy, and hassle. So someone's come along and keep them engaged for 45 minutes while you sit there back up and have a glass of wine to recover. That's a very good thing to have. And, and so I did pretty well doing that. And I never used to advertise a word of mouth advertising. And so I was quite entrepreneurial. Then I realised actually, I was making a lot more than my friends who might start their Saturday jobs working in a newsagent or shoe shop or whatever. So I cannot it's quite interesting. And I guess that's because I had specialist knowledge. I had some skills that I've developed over time and was able to monetize that. I went to university because I was following the traditional career path. You know, you you go to a good school, you try and get good A levels you go to college or university, you go and get a good job and that's what I wanted to do. And I came through University of Birmingham four year course in manufacturing engineering business studies, came out of university, I didn't have a job in 94. So I just did some telesales just to earn some income and she was employable. And finally, I got what I thought would be my dream job at Cadbury's on a graduate training programme, and it was it was the kind of the perfect job I went, I stayed in Bermuda, I caught like Birmingham. And at that point, I bought a house ready for me to live in. And I was living in not such a good rental student property. So I bought a house and two of my friends were still at university rented rooms for me. And I kind of realised that I was living for free, because my friends were covering the mortgage and the bills are that was quite good. And I remember my very first landlord, when I was a student who lived in this massive house on a very posh road and Bowman called Farquhar road. And posh it was very well, the most expensive roads in Birmingham. And when we moved into his house, he was a hands on landlord, he'd meet the tenants, he'd do the contracts, he would go and inspect the car, he wouldn't do the maintenance. He had some people to do that. But he pretty much organise and arrange, he'd collect the rent, Chase late rent, all that kind of so he's full on hands on landlord, just not what I am, by the way, I'll come to a distinction in a minute. I'm a professional investor. He lives in his lovely house. And I remember as a 919 year old sitting in his home with my friends sign our contract and his big office. And I said it's a bit of a cheat in it. And I said to him, I don't mind me asking this lovely house, what do you do for a living? And he said, Well, I used to be a solicitor, and I'm just a full time landlord. I know what that meant. And my parents, you know, they dad was a GP were fairly middle horse. They own their own home. So we've not rented a home before. And I wasn't familiar with it. You know, unless someone teaches stuff you don't know. And no one told me. And so I thought that's interesting. And the seed went in my head. And then when I had been in my first house for a few years, I thought, well, maybe I want to move a little bit away from the University, which was living next to and closer to Cadbury's in Bournville, whereas working and rather than sell that first house, I decided to keep that yeah, buy another one to move into. And that was my first proper rental in 1998. And I looked at the numbers Kevin, and I realised I was making about 500 pounds profit per month for about two hours work if that. And yet Cadbury's are still on the graduate scheme. That point hadn't quite finished. I was making about 1500 pounds a month for about 200 hours a month. And I kind of thought, hang on a minute. I love this job. But maybe I should do more of this property stuff and I just started to buy more so the chocolate tasting ran out of pleasure for you in the end. I look I still like chocolate tasting you know, I was actually pet This makes people really sick. I was paid extra money for a Monday morning to go and eat Cadbury's dairy milk chocolate and tell me was any good or not. Right. So I had to take a little test and we got paid extra 10 pounds a year to be a Cadbury chocolate taster. Well, well that's how that looks good, doesn't it? Um, yeah, it's very good to receive as a discussion point. You know, I thought about you the other day because I read something you know, I'm an economist, yes or no Unknown Speaker 15:00 I'm always following what's going on in a macro? The big picture thing? Yeah, the price of cocoa has just soared to $5,000 per metric tonne. Wow. Right. Which is up nearly three times. Yeah. Calabrese little comment was we're gonna have to put our prices up. Yeah, well, they're pretty high as it is nothing. But yeah, but can you know, chocolate is a luxury good in a way you shouldn't be but it is really, you know, it's quite expensive and I'm not sure we cancelled the sugar tax they put on two drinks as well. It's one of those little indulgent chocolate always report but I think a little indulgence little. Yeah. Pleasure. So you made the transition from the magic. You're a wizard Simon in our days you useful practice that I know. Yes. Yeah. And then you went into employee ship? Yes. You did a little bit of discovery on how in a minute, 500 quid a month. How many hours? Do I have to work for that? Yeah, beginning to see the difference from trading time for money to owning assets that generate absolutely fundamental lesson that most people in the country do not learn? Yeah. How did you make the transition then, to the distinction that you wanted to make was to, I'm a professional property investor. And then I'd like you to go and tell me how you move from owning property to teaching property. Yeah. So what happened was, I wasn't a professional investor, or first, I was very much a landlord. So I was buying the properties. I was managing them looking after myself, because that's what my landlord had learned from people around you is that my landlord had done. And, and that was great. And partly because I hadn't started I didn't start property to replace my income. But I noticed it was a great income supplement. So okay, so I hadn't had that distinction wasn't the reason I was, I was gonna stay at categories. progress through the company, become a director. That's my vision. That's what the Fast Track graduate scheme is all about. And I liked Cadbury's, I like the people. I like the company. I like the product. But what I realised Kevin, I like my freedom just a little bit more. And when you work for someone, and when you're a senior manager, you're not paid by the hour, you're paid a salary and you're supposed to go and do a great job. And you only get on a five weeks holiday a year. And that just isn't enough. I like my travel now you do as well. And because I had this alternative income coming and I thought, what if, what if maybe I have a bit more time freedom, I choose what I do. Now, just to fill in a little gap I want the ways I was able to buy these extra houses was not just because I was saving money because I was living for free. But I had a part time business. And I've always been entrepreneur running student nightclub events in Birmingham for university students and money building up and my business accounts that helped fund some my early deals. In the early days, I didn't know about creative finance, I was using my money to put down as a deposit to buy properties that was taking a bit of time. And after about five and a half years, it was 2001 I realised I hadn't replaced my income by then. But actually, I had enough to live off. So I could give up the full time job, stop trading all my time for money, and you get a whole load of time back. Now the problem with that Kevin is the tasks you have expand to the time available Parkinson's Law. And so I did my kind of club stuff. And I didn't actually do that much. But one of my biggest regrets is I didn't have anyone telling me how impactful investing in property would be. It was very much a side hustle, hustle, side hustle, hustle a hobby. Yeah, you know, I was just dabbling in. I was doing quite well, but I was dabbling and I actually went on a course in 2002, a property course first property training I've ever done and bear in mind, I'd left my job by then. And I had this leaflet come through my door I was listening to you might remember Nightingale, Conan's, the company that produced person development, you will see D Yeah, tapes. Well, there were tapes originally. And then CDs, I'm not sure they're still around. But anyway, but I was into lots of tapes like Brian Tracy and Jay Abraham was on mailing lists and things had leaflet come to him to about going on a property course. And I've done a bit of paid for a bit of training with Tony Robbins and courses and I thought, Okay, well, that's interesting. So I went on a two hour free course in Birmingham. And I sat there listening and some of the stuff I knew. But they talked about some things that I hadn't heard about or hadn't thought about. I've asked kind of interesting. And at the end, they said, Well, we've got this three day course in London, it was 3000 pounds, whatever you could take apart and so not great sign up. So my then partner at the time, this is in 2002 who ran that? It was a company called Russ Whitney, American American. Yes. And they'd come over they got some UK trainer so Gil fielding was one of the train there was another there was a guy as well. I can't remember his name but I know Gil was definitely the the trainer who did that. And some stuff I knew some stuff didn't know they talked about using other people's money to buy property and they talked about buying or credit cards and never thought about that. And so I came right off that course. And I actually bought off so my partner and I at the time, we thought well let's move in together so we bought a property in her name because she didn't have once we use her first time buyer Unknown Speaker 20:00 status, got a 90% mortgage, we put down a 10% deposit on a credit card check, never done that before learn that on the course, we bought slightly below market value, added some value to the property. Six months later refinanced paid off the credit card. So that was annoying when it first No Money Down deal I've ever done, I learned it from that course, is that when the momentum started to pick up, then when it did, it didn't it didn't, I came straight off the course. And I definitely took action or as a result of that course was paid for itself many, many times over. But then I lost momentum. And this is the challenge. I think many people find they do some training or they get inspired or get excited. And then life gets in the way. And I was doing my nightclub business. And I didn't know the value of investing in property. So I didn't really do it. I was just dabbling. And that's why in 2003, I went online, I thought, you know, this is really lonely, all my friends are still working in categories, or my family would work in it. They had their own home, but not investment. I really didn't have anyone around me who could help me grow and learn. And having lots of Tony Robbins stuff, I realised the importance of environment, getting like minded people around you, who are going to champion you and encourage you with a community community is so important. I had no community. So I went online to do an internet search. And there were no property networking groups anywhere in the UK. And there were business networking groups, I used to go to those and I'm in Great Power Team contacts solicitor mortgage broker printer for my business, but none of them really understood property or the challenges I was going through. So I set up the very first networking in the UK in Birmingham. And it's just a small group of people at first and then started to grow. How did you market to them? That word of mouth? This is before the Internet, what I was gonna say just just people I knew social media, no internet, no social media. No, there was internet, but it's very early days of internet. But no social media, no Facebook, no YouTube, it was people I knew. I'm a big fan of networking. And I'm big fan of, you know, telling people what you do, and who, to some icon. I just knew people to through what I was doing. They knew people and it started to grow. And then the people came to the first one. Oh, probably as many as we get around this table. Maybe five? I don't know. Okay. I thought though, that it was a start. I saw a new few people. And he got from there. And and how I started trading was people say to me, Simon, how come you don't have to work? I said, I do work. I've got my properties. I got my nana no, you don't go to work. Yeah, we're talking, you know, 20 years ago now. So there weren't YouTube videos that people did not know how to do this. So I started telling people what I had done. And that's when I realised what my passion was right? And for me property, and it's not so much about the money, or owning lots of property. For me property investing is about what property investing can do for you. Exactly. And what it can do for you is allowing the time, the freedom, the headspace to really work out. What are you passionate about? What do you want to do? So I'm delighted to say, I now do what I love to do. I teach people now, I'm not going to do this forever. Because as a creator, as you are, we kind of get bored of things. Sometimes we need to move on. I think I'll always be doing some sort of teaching because I love it. And I particularly like it when people listen and take action and get results. It really annoys me when they don't take action because they're not going to get results. But I love being a little bit of a catalyst in someone changing their life. We've helped so many people, I get real kick cannabis from that. Well, that's a really powerful thing, isn't it? Because, you know, we're going to talk about schooling in a minute, actually, because it's interesting that your parents were really from that traditional side, you have the exposure yes to the rich guy and the rich place and Farquhar lane. Road. Yes. And then but he never became a mentor. No. So nobody really became the mentor, which we pick up from Rich Dad, Poor Dad, the fact that I didn't have a man's meant, and I also didn't have a mentor. So you became a mentor? It seems like yes, well, I didn't have a property mentor. But I had people around me who influenced me, so like, not around me. But I would go to Tony Robbins events, you know, and Brian Tracy and these kind of people. And so I realised the importance of mindset. And everyone thinks knowledge and knowledge is important. But I know people who know exactly what's doing property, Kevin, and they don't do it, because they don't have the right mindset, the right belief, the right attitude, that the confidence to move forward. So mindset, I think is probably the one of the most important thing so I'm always investing in myself to improve my mindset and bad days, I've noticed that you do spend some money and you go off because I different. Unknown Speaker 24:35 You know, I was strict a little bit during COVID. And, and you know, we do a lot of virtual events now. And I, if it's the only way you can learn great, but personally, I like to get face to face in a room with people connect with them. I just prefer that style of NetWare. I love the energy you get from that. Right? Yeah, likewise. So let's talk about the let's keep going a little actually and come back to the children bit in a minute in the schooling. Unknown Speaker 25:00 because even though people Well, you said earlier on, you live in a house, you rent a house, you probably work in a property, everything you probably inherited a property at some point you buy one to live in your property weaves itself through the very fabric of our lives. But nobody teaches a thing about property. And nobody teaches a thing about money. Yeah. So how do you feel about the fact that all of this is going on, and we need life skills, and children are living now children born today will live on average 200 years of age now. So they've got a much longer life. But nobody teaches this at all. Until you discovered by chance like you did. Yeah, like I did, like everybody does. What are your thoughts about that? Well, it's going to cause a massive problem for the individuals and for society. Because if we're living longer, and obviously, there will be advancements in science and technology. So maybe we'll be able to, you know, keep going longer. But as we get older, our bodies wear out, our bodies aren't as supple, as they were, when we're younger, in our minds, maybe not as sharp as it was you get older. So there comes to a point where most people won't be able to work. And what and tragically, what happens to many people is they retire at 6065 70, whatever getting it's getting older and older overseas. And many people, they've been working for 40 years doing something. And when they stop and looking to enjoy their retirement very often, many people die within six months. I think it's partly because they lose their purpose. They don't have anything, what they were doing for 40 years, they're not doing any more. And that's that's a tragedy. But if people are going to be living longer, how are they going to afford to support themselves? Now we have a state pension here, I think it's about just over 100 pounds a week, which is not exactly a lot of money to support yourself. And is the state gonna provide for all these people who are living much longer, who's going to pay for that going to be more work up your taxes, or they're gonna be less people actually working because of AI, whereas all this tax is going to come from. So I think it will be very naive for someone, even someone in their 20s to think that there's going to be someone providing for them in the future. Yeah, the macro picture doesn't look good, doesn't look good. That's why the state pension age is going back and back and back. Well, in theory, they try and make state pension just a little bit older than the average life expectancy. Well, I mean, that's an interesting point. But I mean, the current state pension age is 66. Right. So I think life expectancies probably, you know, 8480, I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. So I'm not sure it's tied to that. But it's really tied to the number of people who are taxpayers relative to the number of people who we see. So money. And so think about this, if there are less taxpayers because of automation, and AI, exactly. Who's Who's gonna pay it all. I mean, they're already trialling a four day week in Germany. Yeah. And so some interesting things going on in the world, and have children lived to 100. It sounds great, doesn't it? Oh, we've got longer life expectancy, children will live 200. Okay, but it means they're gonna have to work till they're 80. That, to me is a tragedy that can be avoided, by understanding some of the distinctions that you're sharing. And certainly a wealth builders we share, which is the challenge of trading time for money. Yeah, instead of owning assets that generate a flow of money, which gives the freedoms that you've mentioned, and everybody wants freedoms in different ways. And you've expressed how you'd like to do that. So I'm guessing that you know, the freedoms you're enjoying, you're not really going to be at a place where you just at some age stop. Oh, well, you know, I have, I have lots of investors, I have property, I have Unknown Speaker 28:34 cryptocurrency, I have some shares, I have investments in businesses. So I think it's good to you do need to specialise in something. But then I think you also need to diversify a bit. I was way too much in property for a number of years. But I have other investments. And and you want to make sure you don't rely on just one thing. So if something happens, you know, cryptocurrency was always just a punt at very small amount of money, whereas it's grown quite recently. But you know, it's a very small amount. It's a punt, right? Yeah. But I think having different streams of income is really important. And the problem is, we are so conditioned, that, Oh, you have to go and get a job. And you have to trade your time for money. It takes a lot of work to get people to break free from that thinking and understand about free enterprise and having businesses and having multiple businesses a big mistake people make, they go and set up a business. But really, they're just working for a tyrant, ie themselves. Many people in business are working, there might be only a good amount of money, but the amount of hours they're putting in, if you look at the hourly rate, they can make more money by flipping burgers in McDonald's. Nothing wrong with that, obviously, and you get free food for life as well. Maybe not the best food but still, but the point is, sometimes I think people who are in a business, they don't get business, they're still just trading their time for money. And I think one of the best things you can do is actually being a CEO, bringing it back to the DIS content and when we're talking about it Unknown Speaker 30:00 is where you're not the person doing all the work or CO organisers or they're not the person doing the work now I'm still do things in my biz I probably shouldn't do. But I can only do what I do because I've got a great team. One of my businesses crowd property, I go to a board meeting once a month I have a few phone calls, but that's it I am not involved and they probably too much better because I'm not involved I don't interfere. And I think that's an important distinction people need to get to if you if you have a business doesn't mean you need to be the business. And in my training was I for many years I was the best we have other people are helping but I was the business and that's a dangerous place to be and Unknown Speaker 30:37 we hope you enjoy today's episode. Don't forget that we are constantly updating our resources inside the wealth builders membership site to help you create, build and protect your wealth. Head over to wealth builders.co.uk/membership right now for free access. That's wealth builders.co.uk/membersh