In this episode of WealthTalk, Christian Rodwell and Kevin Whelan welcome back long-time WealthBuilders member and property expert Mike Hedgecox. Mike shares his journey from a 30-year corporate career to financial independence through property, focusing on HMOs (Houses of Multiple Occupation). He explains why property remains a powerful wealth-building pillar, how HMOs offer both income and capital growth, and introduces his new business, HMO X, supporting investors at every stage. The episode explores the realities of building wealth with property, the importance of action, and the value of community and expert support.
Key Topics Covered:
1. Mike’s Journey: From Corporate to Property Freedom
2. Why Property Still Matters
3. Taking the Leap: Advice for Aspiring HMO Investors
4. Building HMO X: An Ecosystem for HMO Success
5. Compliance, Regulation, and Business Mindset
6. Wealth Building, Legacy & Diversification
7. Overcoming Barriers & The Power of Community
8. Practical Tips & Offers for Listeners
Actionable Takeaways:
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Mike (00:00)
if you put cash into a project, you could be looking now at returns of maybe 8 % return on your cash on day one. I think property has to be seen as a long-term investment. I would never encourage someone to think this is a get rich quick scheme at all.
It's about a long term play of 10, 15, 20 years and holding the asset for its asset growth. So you can get return, the cash return on your cash of about 8%, 9 % or maybe 10 % at the moment. And then you add on the asset sort of growth over the years and it multiplies significantly.
don't think I've met anybody who's ever said, I wish I'd waited longer before I started investing in property. I think with any investment it's about what your goal is actually, isn't it? What are you trying to achieve? Because it'll then take you down the avenue about where your passion is as well, really. So if you're clear about what you're trying to achieve financially, but also what you're trying to achieve from a time point of view, it'll help you decide whether HMOS is right for you.
Welcome to this week's episode of Wealth Talk. My name is Christian Rodwell, the membership director for Wealth Builders, joined today by our founder, Mr. Kevin Whelan. Hi, Kevin. Hi, Chris. Good to be with you again, but not to be confrontational because last week you posed the question, is property dead? And today we've got a contrary view by someone I've known probably decades now, very, very well established property.
expert, but also very open-minded to all forms of diversification, as we'll hear. And he definitely doesn't think properties did. Absolutely. Yeah. So we're pleased to welcome wealth builder member, Mike Hedgecox to the podcast today, actually returning. He was a guest many, many years back actually. And Mike was in a corporate role for 30 years and he wanted to escape that routine and be his own boss. And that led him towards property. And 10 years later now, Kevin, he's financially independent.
building a family legacy and even taking control of his pension by using SAS. He was a bit of a reluctant starter though. He took a nudge by the sounds of things. I think it was more than a nudge, it was a double nudge for Mike once before and then secondly I remember. But a humble guy as you'll hear and a very intelligent man who can apply his brain to all sorts of different things and come up with better solutions and I think he...
has done wonders with his sass and wonders for his family. And I think life changing things he's doing. And I think his focus now on property isn't just to make money. He's not really money motivated in that way. I think he genuinely wants to help people succeed in ⁓ his chosen area, which as we'll discover is the wonderful concept of the HMO. That's right. Yes. Standing for House of Multiple Occupation.
a multi-layer essentially. Think of a house with unrelated people in there and I think it's really quite a common concept. And Mike also says, you know, it's nothing new, formerly known as the bed-sit probably many decades back. yeah, yeah. Well, names change to protect the innocent, but the concept is well established and you can have different tenent types, of course, and we'll hear Mike's tenent type explained as you go through the interview. Absolutely. So, time for us to head on today to our conversation with Mike.
Hedgecocks. Mike, welcome back to Wealth Talk today. How are you? Yeah, great stuff. Thank you, Christian. Great to be back, actually. And I say welcome back. I mean, it was a little while ago. Episode 24, can you believe it? Back in July 2019 when you last appeared. How the world has changed since 2019. Crikey. Okay. Hasn't it just? Today we're really going to be talking about, I guess what's
closer to your heart, something that you've been very involved with, which is property investing and in particular, HMO market. And you've got some exciting news to share with us of a new business, a new venture, which I'm sure we'll be hearing more about, but you're no stranger to wealth builders. We've been working with you for a long time, Mike, and I know you know Kevin personally well. We've helped you set up a SaaS that's helped you create, you know, legacy for your family and you're financially independent now through property. So, you know, for anyone listening now who perhaps
strives to be financially independent is on their way. Any kind of words of reassurance to them? Yeah, I think having a plan really. then I think the model of looking at the pillars and what suits you individually and then go after the pillars that really tune with you, I think are really important. So for us, property stood out 12 years ago when we started on this particular part of our journey. But I think everyone has their own skills and weaknesses and whatever. And it's important you tap into what really gets you going, I think, rather than thinking what other people are doing.
Now you had a background in retail for 30 years or so. So what first drew you into property and the decision about making that switch? Well, retail, I went into, yeah, 40 years ago, I went into retail and I left it about 10 years ago. Fantastic sector to be in when I was in there, you know, it's a thriving sector in the UK. I was in charge of some big teams running UK retailers in charge of big P &Ls, had a focus on customer service, passion for it. I think that's probably held me in good stead actually.
when it comes to later sort of property focus. So all of that was great. And in the end, there was just something about the weekly trading meetings, the weekly board meetings, and you might be having a fantastic time and then you have a bad month sales or bad week sales. It does not change the whole environment of a business. So I just wanted to escape that sort of routine really and have my own business actually was the driving force for it to have some freedom as well.
comes alongside that. So nothing wrong with retail. It was great. It gave me a great career, but there was a time to change, I think, and try and do something for me rather than for other people, actually. And what was it about property that drew you in, in particular? It was actually a conversation with Kevin, actually, all those years ago. He, the time, was a power team member of ⁓ a franchise called Platinum Property Partners, which I went on to join. And Kevin was talking to me about plans and goals and aspirations and all that sort of stuff. I
I was attracted because of his recommendations actually of the people who'd gone before me and joined that same organisation had amazing success. And it just made me think actually the combination of having some income, which the model generates for you, but also some asset growth over time was a great combination. So it just hit a sweet spot, I think, in terms of assets and also income, which was quite appealing, I think. and it may well be people listening now, Mike, who
would love to go full time property, but it's a big jump to just suddenly, you know, cut your salary off. Did you have a transition period or how did that work out? was quite short. Again, we almost joined in 2010 with my brother. In the end, we didn't join and it's really because we didn't quite have the assets to really go for it in a big way. And I was keen that if we went for it, we went for it and made a proper business out of it rather than dabbled. And it was about three years later, Kevin came back to me and said, look, actually, Mike, you have got the assets to this. Why don't you do it? And there's a bit about
you know, sort of getting off the fence and taking action really. And that's what Kevin did for me. He encouraged me to take action. And it was quite a simple conversation. He just said, why aren't you doing it? I can't think of a reason actually. So we started in 2014. I still had my career going at that stage. I was working for Evans Cycles running bike shops around the UK. I then worked for Majestic Wine, which was fantastic. So really, really great jobs.
spent after a year of the crossover, we got two properties fully up and running. The third one was in refurbishment and that allowed us just to step away and then focus totally on property. Not to replace the income immediately, but it was enough to allow us to focus actually, myself and my wife Claire. So that was the tipping point really. Yeah and you mentioned Claire there, so this has definitely been a partnership and I know your daughter is now also involved, hearing more about.
that later. No, it's great to do. You we wanted our own business and, know, Claire had been looking after our girls as they grew up and we wanted to do something that was, you know, together really. So this, particular model allowed us to do it with some, some low external costs really. So we could run it ourselves in the growing stages and therefore make more money from it before we then started outsourcing lots of stuff and, and getting more of a balance. But we'll probably cover more of that as well later on, I think. We will. So I think it's good just for people to see.
where you are now as well. So then we can go back and then we can kind of fill in the gaps. But you mentioned the word freedom a little while ago. What does freedom mean to you now, now that you've achieved the financial element? What does that allow you to do which you couldn't before? You think about personal values. This is one of my main personal values, always has been. And I've always been, even in my corporate world, I wanted freedom, which is probably why I left the corporate world. But freedom for me was about having freedom of time for me to do stuff with Claire and the family.
And obviously, to help with that, financial freedom helps you achieve that as well. So the two were very closely linked, really. I think back in those days, freedom was more about escaping the corporate world and having enough money to do that. As we've grown the portfolio, it's allowed us to do more stuff because we've had more financial independence, but also then the time freedom that comes with it. you know, we are enjoying being away, you know, I can work away from home and enjoy holidays actually, far more than we would ever have thought.
have to say it has been life changing. was reflecting on this with my co-owners of PPP the other day actually, but for all of us it has changed our lives. That's quite a major thing to say really, but there's no doubt if I hadn't done that I would have still been working the hours I was working the 50,000 miles a year driving around the UK until I retired. And I can't think now of doing that. It's a totally different world I'd say.
Yeah, and that's great to hear. And often people have this goal, don't they, to achieve financial independence, whatever that number might be for them. But then you hit that and you think, actually, you know, I've got time on my hands. And perhaps then you start to look for new projects. And that's obviously something that you've now got involved with, with the new company, which we'll come on to in a moment. But before that, let's go back to Platinum. You've mentioned Platinum Property Partners.
They played a big part, didn't they, in that initial momentum to help you get going and learn about HMOs. Without joining something like an organization like PPP, we wouldn't have achieved what we've achieved because you're taking risk when you invest in anything and you want to surround yourself with people who can help you mitigate risk. And they did that, you know, so which properties to buy, where to buy them, how to refurbish them, how to do it compliantly, how to maximize the profit, all that stuff.
could have a go on your own, but actually having someone alongside you really helping you made all the difference. So that sort of support was amazing at the time and is a key part of that model to help partners sort of ⁓ stay safe and compliant, but also maximise the profit, which is crucial. And then of course, they hit a difficult period and actually went into administration and you and three others stepped in to buy it. So what motivated that decision, Mike?
It was two and half years ago. We were part of a larger group at that time, all about property, but a larger group. That group was trying to refinance and it happened around about the time of the Liz Trust budget. So without blaming her individually, the economic impact of that budget was that you couldn't get big lending for companies, you couldn't refinance and the cash in that particular, in the group company then ran out very quickly. So we could have just let the whole business go, but there was an emotional thing here. wasn't a...
It wasn't an investment decision, I can assure you of that. It was an emotional decision because we've got a team of people in Bournemouth who are just fantastic and they deserve better than just seeing their whole careers disappear. And then you've got a whole community of franchise partners at the time, about 180, 190. I think actually they wanted to carry on having the support and the community and so on. So there were actually five of us on day one and now there's four of us who said, look, we'll step in and we'll also run the company for the benefit of
its current members, anybody else who then wants to join the future, but not as a big profit earning venture, but purely because it does what it says it does, which is to help people grow wealth through their property. And we wanted to help people carry on actually, rather than let the whole thing sadly drift away. So it was emotional rather than financial. And have you noticed a shift in the franchise model over the last few years? Yeah, think franchising has gone through a of a phase anyway, I think. we talk at
people at the BFA about franchising. And I think you find there's lots of different types of franchise. You've got, know, the, let's say lower cost entry ones, which may be more about buying an alternative job actually for lots of people. It's just being their own boss, but you're controlled by the franchise or in lots of ways. The more expensive franchises, the high net worth ones have probably struggled more in recent years, I think, really, because the cost of buying a franchise and then the cost of setting up the business at that franchise.
rates has gone up quite substantially in the last four five years. So I think there's probably higher barriers to entry in going into the top end franchises than there were probably seven or eight years ago, I think. So you're now a co-owner of both Platinum Property Partners and the brand new HMO X. So what inspired you to launch HMO X? Well, think we've learned a lot with PPP and it does what it does for its franchise partners. They're generally people who looking to build larger portfolios.
with larger investments, but we know in the UK there's a huge amount of people running HMOs or wanting to own HMOs and looking for support. And we wanted to have a business that offers support across every life stage of HMO management. So whether people are talking, learning about it, they're buying, they're operating them, they might have a portfolio already, they might want to exit in the future. Whatever they want to do, we want to put a business together that helps them in all life stages of their HMO life really.
And that's what HMO X is and the X stands for expert. we are, we believe, an expert in every aspect of HMOs from purchase right through to exit and everything that sits between it. this would apply for new investors, accidental landlords, you know, covering pretty much everyone. Absolutely. Yeah. We've got, you know, I think we've got, you know, sort of within our sort of target people who are, who haven't even started yet, but want to just learn about it.
right up to people who've got a portfolio of 30, 40 properties, but want to in this today's world, stay compliant, be safe, be the best they can be, and be part of something bigger than just a one man band really. So I think we're looking to attract all HMO current investors and future investors really. So what are the pros and perhaps some of the cons as well for HMOs? You obviously are a big fan, Mike. What is it about HMOs in particular that you think can really help someone who wants to build their wealth?
It comes back down to the pillars, doesn't it? So I think if the property pillar is appealing, then within the property pillar, where do you invest? I suppose the big difference is either commercial or resi. And if you go into commercial, there are pros and cons of commercial. And in residential, there's different models in residential. For HMOs particularly, what I love about this model is that you have got it as a very, very strong cash generator. So it's an income play, hence replacing income.
whether it's all or part of a salary that you're looking to replace now. And also, you're owning the assets, you've got capital growth as well. it's those, that combination, I think, is a great sort of basis for the model. And the other thing we've learned is it's been very, very resilient to the economy. So this model has evolved probably over 30 years, it used to be called bedsits, you know, back a couple of decades ago, and now it's HMOs. But actually, the demand from tenants is huge.
because people want high quality, safe accommodation with a great landlord looking after them. And the supply of that accommodation, although it's grown, is still not matching the demand. you know, as a basic business model, it just works. And that has worked even through recessions or growth periods. That combination of supply and demand has remained. So it's a very resilient model against an economic backdrop that has been ever changing, I would say.
And I mean, the buy-to-let market, we know the yields have been reducing and, you know, for many people now, they're kind of barely breaking even on the buy-to-let. How can you compare for someone now who perhaps is ⁓ looking to move into HMOs? Is there a calculation, a way of them sort of doing some numbers in their head to see how they might improve that? It varies quite a bit about geography, actually, about where you are in the country. But I'll give you an example from my personal experience. I've still got a buy-to-let I bought. I bought several in 2000.
10 and their single ballots, I sold one, I've got one left and it breaks even. That's it. So it does what it does at some stage, we'll dispose of it. And I think that model, because we bought it in our own names all those years ago, means it's been hit by the tax changes that also happened about five, six years ago when Section 24 came in and meant that actually if you owned it in your own names, you couldn't offset the interest payments against the profit of that investment.
So the newer model that most investors go into now is buying it through a limited company. And that means that you mitigate some of that sort of financial tax risk, I guess. But in terms of the returns, you know, I think return on investment is not a bad, I suppose, assessment to give. So if you put cash into a project, you could be looking now at returns of maybe 8 % return on your cash on day one. But I said day one is the starting point. I think property has to be seen as a long-term investment. I would never encourage someone to think this is a get rich quick scheme at all.
It's about a long term play of 10, 15, 20 years and holding the asset for its asset growth. So you can get return, the cash return on your cash of about 8%, 9 % or maybe 10 % at the moment. And then you add on the asset sort of growth over the years and it multiplies significantly. So that's a sort of target. Now for a buy to let at the moment, the cash return on investment is likely to be marginal. And that's because, you know, the returns, the rents and the lending criteria.
mean that they just don't stack up in the way they did a few years ago. So I think that's the big difference really is just the ability to get that return now and capital growth. And the other thing you mentioned, market Christian, that the big thing I've seen in the market change over the last five years is when I first started with HMO investment, there were no HMOs for sale. You've now got a maturing market where you've got some landlords who are looking to retire. They might be old and looking to get their cash and retire.
Or they just might want to diversify or maybe tighten their portfolio up. So that market of resale was never there and it's now there. So actually the barrier to entry is lower because you don't need the refurb money that you might have thought you needed to buy a house, refurbish it, refinance it, and then let it as an HMO. You can actually buy an existing one, make it better to whatever your model is with very little capital outlay on refurbishment. I think it transforms the barrier to entry actually.
and makes it really attractive. Yeah, and that was something else very interesting about what you're doing at HMOX because you're actually creating a marketplace, aren't you? Absolutely. So this whole idea about being an ecosystem where we do everything within HMOs and help people whatever they're doing, we've set up as one of the things we do there. We've set up an estate agency helping people buy and sell, very specifically HMOs because that's our expertise. And then we've just set up an auction house, which is the UK's only HMO auction house.
In fact, there's an auction taking place today and that's to help people buy and sell through auctions. that takes away another bit of risk because I all investment has risk attached and one of the risks in property is the risk of delays in conveyancing and sales falling through. It's particular risk in any property deal. The great thing about auctions is the certainty. As soon as the hammer goes down, both parties absolutely committed to that transaction in a period of days. So for buyer and seller,
It takes away another bit of risk, which is a lot of energy wasted on something that never happens. So I think at the moment, these newer strategies of buying property through different vehicles rather than the traditional purchase, refurbish, refinance, and then run it as an HMO. Yeah, this really opens up the market, I think. So Mike, what are the biggest regulatory or compliance challenges that landlords now face?
Well, we have faced a lot. I think we're about to face another lot with the Renters' Rights Act now coming into law. That's going to take about six months to nine months, I think, to implement. waiting for the guidance from the government on that. It has a lot of, obviously, extra built-in protection for tenants, and that's fine because in the end, you want to offer safe housing for people in the UK. So there is a requirement for that sort of legislation. It's gone too far in my view.
because it probably is tackling the wrong issues and not tackling the really poor accommodation that we have seen in the rented sector. But for us, it's business as usual in a way. The whole way of mitigating risk is to be brilliant at what you do. And we'll be changing all of our tenancy agreements, the way we attract our tenants, and also, think, systemizing your business so that it's easy to change things is really important. So our business is totally paperless. We don't have anything at all on paper. So I can adjust the processes to
accommodate changes in legislation actually quite simply. So I think it's just been fleet of foot when these things happen really. And just stay true to what you're trying to do, which is offer a fantastic product to some consumers that really want it and then offer it in a very safe and compliant way. And if you do that, you are ahead of the game.
and beating the competition. And that's what it's about really, is being the best you can be. And tell us a bit more about the business model. So you've built it as a subscription. I know you have a bronze and a silver level. What can people expect for those? Yeah, so we're trying to target the content for people at different stages. So the bronze is very much what do need to know about HMOs. So people looking to get into the HMO market will tell you what it's all about, what you need to know, what you need to do. And that subscription is £79 a month plus VAT and it's £12.
months for the price of 10 means the annual subscription is £790 plus VAT. So that's the the what model. For people who actually then go and buy or have got portfolios, then we would probably suggest the silver subscription where there's more content at a more detailed level for them with more checklists, more guides specifically on the how. So rather than just the what, it's okay, let's show you how to do it so you can physically do it because
You know, you can be trained on stuff as much as you want, but you sometimes need people to show you how to do some stuff rather than just being told what you need to do. So the silver subscription is 195 pounds a month or 1,950 pounds for the year, i.e. again, 12 months for the price of 10. So that model then has more interaction, more webinars. We've got an amazing power team of suppliers who will contribute content. So there's constant market updates, but also,
because it's part of this one ecosystem, we can provide access to auction properties before they go on the market and also for normal private treaty sale properties before they go on the market. So it gives people access to properties before it goes wider, but also within that environment, we can help them actually decide on what's right for them and coach them through the right decisions on which properties, in which locations and so on. it's trying to cover all of those things, depending on whether you're brand new, experienced.
or whether you're maturing and you want to keep your portfolio and run it at the maximum really. So trying to do everything for those people, all about HMOs, that's our passion, HMOs. Really does have everything under one roof. And you mentioned the mentoring there, refurbishment, compliance support, and just to emphasize the team behind it, the years of experience. mean, you mentioned Power Team, not just with the kind of professional connections, but the team behind this is unbelievable. know, experts in different areas. then obviously a lot of
we're all landlords. you we know we've been there, we've done it, we've seen all the problems happen. you know, part of this, you know, the old phrase about standing on the shoulders of giants, if you can help, if you can follow a team of people who've been there and done it, they've made all the mistakes you could possibly think of, and you learn from those mistakes, it means you mitigate risk. And, you know, our job is to help people be successful and mitigate the risks they have in whatever aspect of HMOs they're looking at. So we think, you know, we've got a lot to offer people really with that experience. And I said the
The team we've got sitting behind us is not just the employed team, our power team of suppliers and connections, just world-class people. They know exactly what they're doing. Absolutely. Yeah. Not just like any other training course that's out there. I know you guys built on very strong values. Yeah. No, think people can go on training courses. It's fine. But actually taking action is another thing. Going back to those years ago when Kevin said, why don't you actually do it then? That made me do it. And I think having people alongside you who can help you
take action rather just learn about stuff is really important because one of the biggest barriers to being successful is not taking action. So your daughter, Katie, now runs the Lettings business and she manages 250 rooms. How does it feel seeing the next generation building on what you started? Amazing really. When Cleo and I started this game and got into our own portfolio in Bista, we grew with some friends here, a local brand. It's called Bista Living.
We're the best landlords in Bicester, we believe. get great reviews from our housemates, we get referrals, we get employers contacting us. We've set it up really well. We thought we were brilliant. And then we found that our daughter's better than us. So, you know, she's younger than us, clearly, and therefore in tune with the housemates. Our housemates generally are young professionals in their 20s and 30s, and she can tune into them. So she has a great relationship with them. She lays on social events for them. So there's a whole...
This is far bigger than just having a property portfolio. It is creating a tenant community as well, really, where they can mix, make friends locally, because a lot of housemates, you know, coming into the area to work in an industry and they've got no friends apart from their work colleagues. So if you can go into a house share and meet other people and then you're part of a brand or local organization with more than one house, so we've got quite a few in Bicester, you can then create far more friends. And I think, you know, today's young population,
are far more visual, they want nice looking houses, they want visual stuff and they're far more social. So that old bed-sit model I mentioned beginning, that has really disappeared. You the whole movement of people living as a community and making friendships is far more important, I think, now than it's ever been. So she can tap into that in a way that, know, Claire and herself probably are looking a little like all fogies if we try to do that. So, you know, she's definitely in tune where we're not. Yeah, you mentioned the changes, you know, over last few years where
Now, really, most people are buying property through a limited company or a partnership. Do you see that difference from when you first started where perhaps property investing was something people might do on the side and more as a hobby, whereas now you really do need to start with ⁓ focusing on it as a business from the beginning? think so. Yeah, absolutely. think HMOs probably has always had to be a business anyway because it needs a level of management and business thought to make it successful.
I think a lot of single-led landlords clearly have drifted into that as just a quick investment. then especially in their own personal names, they're being caught out by some of the tax changes. But I think right now, thinking of property as a business is vital because there's legislation out there which has to be adhered to, but also there's a business model to maximize your profits and serve your customers. It's like any other business really. So I think whatever background people have in their corporate world or other jobs.
You will have learned some things there will help you in property because actually it's not that different. It's about customers and it's about supply and demand and it's about being very, very good at the processes to make you efficient. So quite similar to a normal business, I would say. So you're very familiar with our seven pillars of wealth, Mike, and any good wealth builder knows that the key is to create recurring streams of income, multiple streams from as many pillars as possible. And I talked about SaaS right at the beginning, but tell us a bit about.
what SaaS meant to you and how that's helped you in your wealth building journey. Yeah, absolutely. So we've had the SaaS for probably a dozen years. And I think when we started off, because we're so focused on property as our main pillar 10 years ago, 11 years ago, a lot of our assets went into property. So whether it was our cash went into there, but also actually our SaaS was diverted into property, whether it's commercial or through third party lending in those early days. So I think that helped us grow the SaaS, also I think it's helped us become an
we've become expert in property. So I think whichever pillar you might choose to major on, I think being an expert in something is really important, especially in the early stages when you're trying to grow a business or grow an investment. And then I think over time, we've diversified more. So we've got our solid HMO business, which is our cash investment. Actually, the SaaS, we've moved into other investments so that we, across the pillars that we're in, have got some diversification as well.
The SaaS has got investments in the stocks and shares. It's got some third party loans and it's got some individual shares in individual companies. So I think we're keen and it's got some cash sitting there as well to take advantage of other investments. So I think we've learned to use the SaaS to be our way of diversifying rather than just thinking, well, it's just the same as our other pillar. And then you almost double the risk if you're not careful because you're so focused on one asset class. You might think it's a SaaS.
and property, but if they're the same thing, you've only got one pillar. So I think that diversification is really important. The words we hear very often alongside freedom are control and being able to take control of your pension and start to invest that and make that work harder for you is a wonderful thing. Yeah, no, absolutely. So, you know, our next stage really is obviously growing our SaaS as a family pension set up now. And I had a conversation yesterday actually along those lines. So that's the next stage for us is to bring our daughters into that same world really.
And, know, Kevin talks about sort of knowledge transfer is as important as the asset transfer. So, you know, a lot of our time is now spent with our grown up kids learning about our business as Katie has done, but also our younger daughters now involved as well and trying to help them understand some of the leavers that we've learned over the years, I think. strong foundation, as many pillars as possible. And of course, a watertight roof on top. So making sure you've got all of that protection, wills, powers of attorneys, all of those as well. Yeah, absolutely. We put that all in place and some life cover as well as we grew the business because
know, if something happened to us as we growing it, we would have left a very, very messy setup behind us. So having that as well. So all of that stuff makes sense. I think it's the holistic view is the key here really, rather than just following one strategy and thinking you've got it covered. There's too much risk with that, think. So for anyone listening now, Mike, who wants to start exploring HMOs, what would you say would the first steps be for them?
I think with any investment it's about what your goal is actually, isn't it? Sort what are you trying to achieve because it will then take you down the avenue about where your passion is as well really. So if you're clear about what you're trying to achieve financially but also what you're trying to achieve from a time point of view, it'll help you decide whether HMOs is right for you. But also then doing the research behind those different models, know, so within HMOs there are different HMO models. You know, we've gone on to the young professional market. You might choose students or other particular models.
Learning about those is really important. And then having a plan to implement. And by that I mean it's not just starting, it's actually thinking about what's your support team going to be that will mean you're more likely to be successful, rather than just thinking, right, I'll just start. So, you know, having that power team, your local power team around you to guide you, or being part of an organization like HMOX to help you learn, but also support you, crucial really. So I think having the plan in place, it's quite interesting. was thinking as well, you know, sort of
I don't think I've met anybody in the property sort of pillar who's ever said, wish I'd waited longer before I started investing in property. It just isn't said. So, so if it's some things of interest, then you've got to move to action at some stage, like I did, you know, when Kevin persuaded me to take action, that intervention and made all the difference actually. having people around you to push you gently so that you make the decisions, but they encourage you, I think it's really important because there are hurdles in business or investments everywhere.
And you do need somehow, when the hurdles happen, you need a way of driving on. I think that's where having your goal set right at the beginning means I'll carry on rather than, it's got too difficult, I'll change. So clear goals and purpose, really important. despite the government making their best efforts to make it increasingly harder for landlords, you still see a bright future for the property. Yeah, absolutely. Demand is there, supply is there. So the model has changed. It's more accessible now in buying existing ones.
There is more legislation heading our way. We haven't even touched on the Renters' Rights Act, but that's heading our way in the UK in the next six months. And that's going to have a lot of implications for landlords and tenants in the UK. But with all of that backdrop, said the model has survived and moved over 20 years probably now and adapted. And I think it will keep on doing that because in the end, tenants want lovely safe accommodation at good prices compared to a single let or buying their own. And they want landlords who would
generally care for them, look after them and treat them well. if you do that, then I think the model is as strong as it's ever been. So for anyone listening, Mike, who would like to get in touch, find out a bit more about HMOX and see if it's a good fit for them, you've kindly offered a discount for listeners and our members. Do want to share a little bit about how that works? Yeah, so we've offered an extra 10 % off that annual subscription I mentioned for bronze and silver Hubber members. So just another encouragement to get in and learn about this stuff.
So bronze is targeted for those people who want to just learn the real basics from scratch and silver for those who are now moving to action or who have moved to action who want more support. So that is there for you. I think the best support we can give you probably is have a chat actually, because if this is a new pillar, learning about it is really important before you press the button and start on something. So we've got some great people in the team who are happy just having a chat about your goals, what you're trying to achieve and see if this particular pillar.
suits you or not. on our web page, is hmox.com, if people go on there, there's a contact us on there. And if people put in the little box that they're a builder, then we know that they've been on this webinar and they're part of the wealth builder community. And one of our team then will be in touch to have a chat and just explore it with you, no more than that. So if it's of interest, then we're very happy to help people that way. Great. Thank you very much for that, Mike. And we'll make sure we put a link to that form and the website on today's show notes.
It's been great having you back, Mike. Let's make sure we don't leave it another six years, shall we? Absolutely. No, stuff. No, it's great to see you and reconnect. And yeah, we hope we can help people with this new venture, get into property if they want property and into HMOs if they want to go into property, because it's a fantastic sort of environment to be in. Exciting, challenging, but it can be really rewarding. So yeah, it's been great to talk to you. Well, we're looking forward to seeing the growth of HMOX and your own.
personal wealth building journey in the future. Thanks, Mike. Okay, thanks a lot. See you soon.
Good to hear from Mike there and great new business that Mike's putting together and carving a real USP covering the whole market there, whether you're just starting out in HMOs or your experience, there's something for you there and tapping into some of the new things you mentioned, know, market changing now, maturing. So there's actually now HMOs which already redeveloped, ready to go, which are coming back onto the market. And he's actually the first in the UK to set up HMO auction site as well within HMOX. Yeah, very clever.
And I think he's right, know, there's all of these column inches coming about the great wealth transfer. And it's not just the transfer to families, it's the transfer away from what the current asset is. If you understand the difference. So if somebody's built their wealth with one asset, when they get to a certain age or a certain demeanor, a certain place in their life, they don't want to do that thing anymore. They want to cash out of
the length of time they've been in the asset. So think about business owners selling their businesses. Think about bed and breakfast owners selling to people specializing in apartments and holiday lets. Think about the exodus of landlords who probably bought properties in the 70s and 80s and now moving on. And think about HMOs because as Mike said, when he started, really, you know,
there weren't any HMOs for sale. know, he was right at the start of that and joking apart with a little nudge, you know, he's thrown himself and the whole family into it in a big way. of course helped by having a great support mechanism. And I think we should hats off to anybody who is providing a support mechanism for others, because I think it's the...
community aspect and I've certainly seen that firsthand with the great people at Platinum Property Partners and what Mike's now doing. It's almost like they loved the business so much when it went into some difficulties. They took it out, not really because they thought it was a money spinner, it's because they wanted to safeguard the reputation, safeguard the people who were employed, but also continue to provide a really trusted environment and now there are still.
I think best part of 200 people, you know, still actively meeting, still actively sharing and still actively supporting each other. So, you know, I want to congratulate Mike from starting off as a student, now turning into the teacher. So amazing, not just teaching his own children, of course, which he is doing, but also teaching others. And I think it's great that he's starting a new business, which doesn't compete directly with the property educators.
I think it's more of a support role for people who perhaps like the idea of HMO. They understand it, but there really isn't any practical help, physical support to help with questions and power teams and things like that. So, no, I think it's a great thing. Delighted that we had an opportunity to invite Mike for a second appearance. Mike referred to pillars.
some of our wealth building language and for anyone who's been listening to this podcast for a while will hopefully know that there are seven and only seven pillars of wealth. And these are the different assets that you can use to create recurring income. We talk about business as an asset and property as an asset, but Mike talked about when you're getting into property, you've got to have that business mindset to it. And even more so these days. And he mentioned as well that this was something that he really wanted to
you know, include his family. And so his wife, Claire, being part of this. So it was something they could actually build up and create that independence for themselves. And of course that's extended to their daughter, Katie now as well. But I think there's another point that we often have said, you know, when we're talking to our own wealth builder members is focus your way to security and diversify your way to wealth. In other words, at the beginning, I think I can't remember now exactly how many might needed to sort of feel
that he built a bridge from the employment world into the business world. Maybe three or four properties, something like that. But once you've got three or four, then it frees you enormously from the time. Imagine all the hours he was spending. What did he say? 50,000 miles? Bloody hell, 50,000. I don't mean to do 5,000 miles a year. 50,000 miles a year. Crumbs, that's a lot of time in a vehicle away from your family.
And you can't really be enjoying that. You're not going into sexy places where he's definitely going to sexy places now because he and one of the other members of the group have dissipated in owning a boat, a yacht essentially, that they sail around all sorts of places. Now, wouldn't you rather do that than drive 50,000 miles around the M25? I'd rather go around the Med than the M25.
Well, he didn't mention that. So very humble, Mike, but obviously in the background, he's enjoying life and that free time that he's created for himself. And another diversifier, we said about seven pillars, you know, trying to leverage and use what you already have in your life. And for most of us, Kevin, most people listening, a pension will be one of those asset classes, but pension often feels like it's detached, locked away, something in the future.
But Mike brought that to life again with the help of wealth builders and you referred to the SSAS, but the SSAS is the SSAS pension, something very unique for business owners. Absolutely unique for business owners and with inheritance tax on pensions coming in April, 2027 and the guide now finally finished, you know, which will be out soon. I'll share and showcase, you know, at least half a dozen ways that a SSAS pension.
is fundamentally more effective at building wealth and saving inheritance tax than any other pension. And while historically, probably people might put that off and start getting around to thinking about it, now inheritance tax is coming, then anybody with a family and anybody with a pension is going to be affected. So you can't just kick this down the line. You've got to be aware of what pensions are, how they're going to be treated as far as inheritance tax is concerned because
As I know only too well, you can't know when your time is up. And my father died very young. And people who know my story will perhaps recall that he was only 46 years of age. Never really benefited from a pension. But imagine people dying like, I don't know, my father-in-law was 59. How many years of a pension did he enjoy? You know, and another family member was 60. You know, no time to enjoy.
pension and that will be subject to inheritance tax now, whereas historically they were not. you've got to pay attention. If you've got a pension, you need to pay attention and get the guide. It's free. And I guess we'll showcase at some point, Chris, on other podcasts when and where people can grab a free copy for themselves. Yes. Well, you can still register from wealthbuilders.co.uk forward slash IHT waitlist.
Although that wait list is nearly over now, as you say, the guide is being put together as we speak and absolutely do make sure you grab a copy of that. I guess we'll summarize that in a forthcoming episode. Some of those key points. Yeah, that would be good. Maybe in the next couple of weeks, the next podcast, we could kind of isolate some of those things because they'd be pretty powerful to share. Talking about sharing, think we saw a nice review.
coming from Ian this week. Yes, well, you know, we love working with all of our members, but there gets a time where, you know, we have to let them fly for themselves when they've achieved what it is that they set out to achieve. And of course, there's still further room for Ian, but he did send us a lovely email to say that I wanted to take a moment to say a heartfelt thank you for all the support that you and Kevin have offered me over the past few years, from guidance on SaaS to being a guest on the podcast.
And working through the portal, it's all helped me build stronger foundations, even though we had a few leaky roof moments along the way. What I've learned through Wealth Builders has definitely helped us better protect what we're building. So heartfelt thank you from Ian. Yes. And that's an in-joke, isn't it? The roof is the concept of building a properly structured protection for your own family. So wills, powers of attorney, looking at how you own your home as joint tenants, tenants in common.
putting your life insurance policies in trust, things like that. And from time to time, because you've got to coordinate those things, things can take a little bit longer. Things sometimes get forgotten. So, you we don't want a leaky roof, do we? As any good builder will tell you, you get watertight as quickly as possible. And obviously one of the big leaks coming, as I probably mention every week now in the running, is inheritance tax is going to be squeaking and leaking your money away. And you know what I heard a...
A great quote, I think I'm just trying to remember now, it was Roy Jenkins way back, he was a chancellor way back. He said, you know, people who pay inheritance tax, because it's pretty much a voluntary tax, you know, because normally you can plan ahead, are the people who distrust their heirs more than they dislike HMRC. Even the guy who introduced it, inheritance tax 1986, might be in 84, but anyway, mid 80s. I had hair then, was all.
All everything was in the garden was rosy. which was, there was Nigel Lawson, yeah. And he said, it's a voluntary tax, you know, if you simply don't pay attention, you'll end up voluntarily paying and making the in-land revenue one of your key beneficiaries. And for some people, Chris, and joking aside about all sorts of things, you wouldn't want the taxman to benefit more than your own children.
And that can happen, you know, if you've got a reasonable number of kids and a decent asset base. So yeah, I'm going to keep jumping on that soapbox now for months and months and months until the message finally clicks that you've got to do something, not let that capital value leak from your life. Fortunately, Ian fixed his leaky roof. Most people don't fix their leaky inheritance tax bill because they're dead. Important message indeed.
And I guess another important message is to have the right people around you who can look after you, but also give you that nudge, someone to challenge you just like you did with Mike and challenge him to take action. So if you're listening now and you know that you've been kind of in an hour and you've been sitting on the fence too long, whatever that might be when it comes to building wealth or protecting wealth and make sure you this year, as soon as possible, you take action and do something about it. You know, it's interesting Chris that
When you meet people and often, you know, I know I'm pretty direct and, but not direct because I'm rude, direct because I want results from people really. And a lot of people have said to me, they're grateful for the nudge. They're grateful for the, sometimes people have phrased it in a different way. spoke to somebody the other day. said, you ticked me off about, and I went, did I, is that how you felt about it? She said, no, quite right too, you did. You know, but the language of sometimes you need to,
have that humility to be open-minded to somebody saying, come on, you've been putting this off for too long. Can we get this done? And it's not for me to get it done. It's for them to get it done. And congratulations to Mike Hedgecox and his family by taking that action changed his life. I take no credit for it, but I do enjoy the fact that he's a living embodiment, people who take action, consistent action, and then share that with their families.
So if you think someone may benefit from today's episode, then why don't you take action and hit the share button now, send it to a friend. We would appreciate that very much. And Kevin, we'll be back same time, same place next week. We will indeed. And until then, friend, see ya.
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