Supported living property investor, Lisa Brown returns to the WealthTalk podcast to share how you can get started in developing Supported Living Properties for people with support needs. After working as a Nurse and Health Visitor in the NHS for over 20 years, Lisa decided to follow her other passion and started developing property. She now specialises in supported living property investing and is passionate about improving the standard of supported living property and is developing ways to make it easier for providers and property investors to connect, to create more homes for those who need them most. In this episode, Lisa speaks on the benefits of investing in supported living over other property investment strategies, the huge and ever-growing demand for supported living and the misconceptions of investing in this strategy.
Supported living property investor, Lisa Brown returns to the WealthTalk podcast to share how you can get started in developing Supported Living Properties for people with support needs.
After working as a Nurse and Health Visitor in the NHS for over 20 years, Lisa decided to follow her other passion and started developing property.
She now specialises in supported living property investing and is passionate about improving the standard of supported living property and is developing ways to make it easier for providers and property investors to connect, to create more homes for those who need them most.
In this episode, Lisa speaks on the benefits of investing in supported living over other property investment strategies, the huge and ever-growing demand for supported living and the misconceptions of investing in this strategy.
Resources Mentioned In This Episode:
>> WealthTalk 81 ‘What Is Supported Living?’
>> Register for the FREE Live Academy Webinar
>> Join the WealthBuilders Academy
>> REGISTER HERE FOR FREE RESOURCES ACCESS
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Unknown Speaker 0:01
The purpose of wealth talk is to educate, inform, and hopefully entertain you on the subject of building your wealth. Wealth builders recommends you should always take independent financial tax or legal advice before making any decisions around your finances.
Christian Rodwell 0:19
Welcome to Episode 176 of wealth talk. My name is Christian Rodwell, the membership director of wealth builders joined today by our founder, Mr. Kevin Whelan. I Kevin.
Unknown Speaker 0:30
Hello there, Chris, good to see you again. And I'm established now in my new house, just to let you know, I'm a big bear, as I mentioned, I would be so got a bit of a virtual background going on today till I get that sorted. But nonetheless, got my broadband up and all super fast, super ready. And super excited that we've got a revisit, haven't we, from a good guest today, but quite timely, because she's kind of redetermined her niche and reacquainted herself with her niche again, and good share it. I think
Christian Rodwell 1:07
that's right. Yeah, our guest today is Lisa Brown. And Lisa is the founder of the supportive living property network. And this is a way to connect and build relationships with other people in the supported living property space. And you're right, we did first invite Lisa, onto the wealth talk podcast back in 2020. So it's, it's really good today to hear how things have been progressing, because we're in troubled times. We've talked about this over the previous few weeks, Kevin, so we need to adapt. And there will be some people listening, perhaps, who have been following a property strategy, which has been working well, but now they need to start looking at other creative strategies and supportive living could be one that might fit.
Unknown Speaker 1:52
Yeah, indeed. And you know, I'm not saying as well builders don't say what strategy anybody should follow. I think those who know us well enough, no, we try and cover all bases, because we are genuinely impartial, and genuinely holistic, taking full 360 position on wealth. However, there are some quick principles here, which is the principle of not not really responding to the noise that's out there about the word market. You know, I often hear in casual conversations. People say to me, Oh, Kevin, you, you know, a thing or two, property market must be dead, right. And they use the word market as if it's some kind of homogenous state of play, that markets determine all of our behaviour and all of our wealth. And in fact, the opposite is true. If you're responding to a market, it means you're out of control, you're not able to add value, you're not really participating, you're just observing. There's nothing wrong with observation, but you don't get wealthy by observing you get wealthy by participation. And participating means then taking some action. And the way to do that is to start looking, and seeing where there are pockets of opportunity. I prefer to use the word niche, Chris, where you bring outstanding value to a narrow group of beneficiaries in an entrepreneurial way, where ethically you're bringing great value to them. But you're also bringing great value to yourself. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. And that's got nothing to do with markets. It's got everything to do with being curious. So today, Chris, I want to focus on a few and a reminder. I'm not sure I've covered them for a while now, of the different ROI is that I love it because everybody's heard the word ROI. And if you had 100 people in the room and said, What is ROI mean? They they come up with return on investment, right, which is the weakest ROI, because it's the one that only focuses on a selfish return for yourself. But the first ROI that I would have everybody think about particularly now in troubled times, is a reason to overcome inertia. In other words, don't let the market push and pull you in a kind of, oh, well, I'm you know, I'm not really in control of anything. I'm spinning around with, with the weather with the tide with what's going on out there. You're absolutely steering of course, looking for opportunities. And sometimes those opportunities come right at you and you stumble into them. And as Lisa goes on to say, and I won't spoil her thunder, but she stumbled into this opportunity. And maybe it's a good time to listen to her opportunity. And then do a little bit of a debrief on some of the other ROIs Chris because I think they'll be quite opposite. For where She's discovered another ROI, which I think is very powerful, which is return on impact. And I think if we listen to Lisa, she'll share with you very eloquently, what her impact has been, not just for others, but indeed for role modelling.
Christian Rodwell 5:16
Sounds like a good idea. Let's head on to our interview today with Lisa Brown. Lisa, welcome back to wealth talk. How are you?
Unknown Speaker 5:24
I'm good. Thank you, Christian. It's lovely to be here again,
Christian Rodwell 5:26
how Yeah, time has flown, hasn't it? I was looking back when our first you know, conversation was that was episode 81. And that was back in November 2020. So we were right in the thick of it, then. Yeah, yeah. How's things evolved since then?
Unknown Speaker 5:43
Yeah, I've been really busy. And yeah, I've had such an amazing couple of years learning more and more about supported living. It's one of those things the more you learn, the more you understand, the more you know, it's a constant, like with any subject, isn't it? The more you get into it, and you're finding
Christian Rodwell 5:59
the awareness of supported living now is growing. How is it now?
Unknown Speaker 6:05
Yeah, absolutely. I'm seeing, it's quite interesting. I've seen a few people saying, sort of, you know, people jumping on this, this bandwagon of this thing that's so popular now supported living. And that's amazing. Because where we were was, you know, people just haven't really heard of it as an investment strategy. So the fact that people are seeing it as something that people are using more and more, or talking about more and more, maybe still not, there's a lot of people who don't understand it, I think in this face,
Christian Rodwell 6:30
yeah. Probably worth US recapping, obviously, I'm going to point people back to that first episode. But you know, what is supportive living? What do we mean by that
Unknown Speaker 6:39
term. So it's a living arrangement for a tenant with support needs. So as a property investor, you let your property to an organisation who lease your property from you for a period of time, it might be a few years, sort of typically anything between two to seven years, sometimes up to 10 years. And they, they take over the management of your property, and then they bring in tenants who have support needs. So they can be people from a range of supporting these people with learning disabilities, people who've been homeless, people who are fleeing domestic abuse, children in care, or teenagers leaving the care system, there's a range of people with support needs. And all of these organisations are looking for properties to lease you know, all of these support organisations and charities, as part of the package that they deliver to support people, they also need a home for people to be in. So as a property investor, it's a great opportunity to let your property to an organisation and create homes for people who really need them.
Christian Rodwell 7:34
Yeah, we'll talk about some of the benefits in a second. But I guess we talk often about, you know, following your flow, and your background is as a nurse, so you've got a caring nature, right? So how did that kind of merge into the property investment strategy that you've obviously now become such an ambassador?
Unknown Speaker 7:52
I completely fell into it Christian, it was a complete accident, you know, and I think it's really interesting that I've never really heard of supported living, and I was like to write to serve as a nurse. And then we moved down to Devon, and I'd struggled to get senior nursing work part time around my children. So I thought I'd have a parenting bit of property investing. And I'd done a couple of heritage flats and thought, Oh, this is brilliant. I love doing corny sing and fireplaces. And this is what I'm going to be doing forever as beautiful buildings. And then I was approached by a specialist Housing Association who asked if I would develop a bungalow for a young man with learning disabilities, it just piqued my interest. Really, I just, yeah, let me find out a bit more found out that this young man had been in inappropriate accommodation for several years, was on the verge of being admitted to hospital and needed a secure home. And it just was like, well, we've got to do now what can we do to help and get involved in this. And so we developed this bungalow, this young man moved in, his support needs dropped from four to one to two to 124 hours a day, cuz he was in the right home or things we know about getting people in the right environment where they feel safe and secure. And we did adapted it specifically to meet his needs. And then went on this very steep learning curve about the challenges in supported living because I couldn't get a mortgage on that property. I couldn't get insurance on that property. The surveyor came around, valued it and told me I'd ruined the property. Like, have not, absolutely not, I can take down this one stud wall and go back to three bed property. Anyway, it was frustrating. And that led me on to go actually, we really need to work out why this is a challenge for private property investors, I could see all these big funds and investment trusts and stuff investing into this space. But actually, what the local providers were telling me was that they wanted more smaller scale individual properties for the people that they supported. I thought, well, that's perfect. Why aren't normal property investors like the rest of us, you know, small scale property investors investing into this. So it's been a long convoluted way. It's led me to being Yeah, where I am here chatting to you about it. Yeah.
Christian Rodwell 9:52
And there's many benefits and let's look at some of those then. So why should some listening now perhaps consider this over other strategies that are more well known?
Unknown Speaker 10:05
Well, I think if, if you've been a landlord for any length of time, if you've been a property investor, you know quite quickly how how voids can eat into your profits on a standard buy to let or an HMO. You know, you even if you buy at the moment, while the property markets really hot, you'll still have a few weeks in between tenants, if someone gives notice, so in that time, you're still covering the mortgage costs, you're covering probably the council tax any other utility liabilities you have, within that time that there's that void. And then you also have that kind of wear and tear, you know, those little bits and pieces that need to be done, you know, every day, there's little kind of, oh, we just need to repaint the hall or replace that bit of carpet here, or all of those things are taken away from you, when you let a property to a supported living provider, they will lease your property, they will pay you money every single month for the length of that lease. So whether that's three years, five years, 10 years, however long the lease says, you're getting that money in every month, so you find out quite quickly, your net better off because you're not covering those voids, you've then also got the wear and tear that you're not covering, it depends on the lease, each lease was slightly different. And each provider will cover different things. But quite often, they'll cover wear and tear damages. They'll cover things like the gas boiler, servicing bits and pieces like that. So they take away the cost of those things, but also the time hassle. And I think even if your property is managed by a letting agent, there's still quite a lot of administration you have to do you still have to authorise that repair or look at those quotes and decide which one you want to go with. You know, there's there's quite a lot of bits and pieces to do. And if you self manage, then obviously there's more. So it's about financially of slightly better, you're better off quite often letting go of provider, you're also, you know, time better off, you know, you're not managing all of those bits and pieces. And you're also creating homes for people with support needs, you know, the organisations, I speak to all the time struggle to find landlords who will work with them, which means, you know, there's a homeless organisation that I know, well. And they currently have a massive waiting list for Prop for people that you know, who are desperate to move into their properties. They don't have enough properties. People are street sleeping on the streets, on their waiting list at the moment. And it's like, actually, we need to get more properties to get these people off the streets or to get people safely housed.
Christian Rodwell 12:21
Yeah. And in economic climate, there's a lot of uncertainty at the moment, I guess some of those certainties of that guaranteed rent are really attractive.
Unknown Speaker 12:30
Absolutely. You know, that money is coming in, it's government backed money, you know, so it's money that comes in every month, you know that you're getting that money? So yeah. And I think if you're looking at sort of spreading risk across the portfolio, it's a really nice way to kind of look at, you know, having a few supportive living properties and some private rented properties, just mitigate some risks across.
Christian Rodwell 12:51
So what are the first steps for someone, then Lisa, obviously, you've been through that process yourself. And you've now created the supported living property network as well. So a community of like minded people. So, you know, yeah, let's walk through that process of how does someone begin?
Unknown Speaker 13:06
And it's, it's a really tricky question, I get asked this a lot. Is it there is an element of chicken egg, it's like, do I have a property first, if you're, if you're looking at this from a property perspective? Or do I need to find and build a relationship with a provider first, and then find out what properties they need? And I think either of those approaches is right. I think if you have properties, you're a property investor, you know, then actually being able to say, to find the providers in your area and say, Actually, here's the kind of properties that you know I have available are these of interest to you. And putting them forward is is a good start. And that's appealing. So say like the organisation I was talking to before they have an urgent need. Now, you know, they have people sleeping on the street, they don't want to wait six months for properties to go through conveyancing and be refurb, they need something tomorrow for those people. So actually, if you have a property ready and available, you're going to be really attractive to them. But then there are other organisations who are looking and they plan further ahead. Maybe they're taking people with learning disabilities who are currently under Children's Services, and they know that they've got three young people who will be transitioning into their services from Children's Services, and they need they need a three bed house in nine months time, and they can plan for that, then actually buying to order for them and helping them to meet their needs and have something in place can work well. So it is tricky getting started and a lot of it comes down to finding what's needed in your area and finding the providers in your area who are looking for property and and I know that's a challenge for a lot of people to find those.
Christian Rodwell 14:38
Yeah. And within your your network, how are you helping your members to to overcome some of these challenges?
Unknown Speaker 14:45
So so what I realised was this, like these two groups speak a different language. So it's like the property investors speak property speak and thinking that way. And the providers speak in a different way. And I felt like actually what we needed to do was try bringing people together and bring people into the same space to build relationships and try and understand each other. So the vision with the network is that actually people connect and collaborate and learn to understand each other and understand each other's issues. And then through that, we've got a whole load of shared training as well. So to share good practice and, and help people to understand how they can work with each other. So we're kind of overcoming that, that those two sort of siloed groups if you like, because I saw lots of sort of deals falling over where people weren't understanding each other. So bringing people together to build those relationships and make it easier to find each other because I speak to the providers who are saying, I can't find any property investors, I'm desperate for this property. And I speak to the property investors are going I can't find any providers anywhere. And I'm like, well, we need to bring everyone into one space and try and build those relationships. So people can do this.
Christian Rodwell 15:51
Absolutely. And absolutely focused on collaboration rather than competition for trying to, you know, find, find, as you say, find connections there. And there's no shortage.
Unknown Speaker 16:03
No, there's such a demand. And sadly, we'd like you said, with the current economic situation, I think demand is going to increase, you know, from some of the onerous provision and some of the, the other services there, we look at the long term projections for sort of the need for learning disabilities and mental health supported living. And they, they really big growth areas, you know, the local authorities are looking at commissioning more and more supported living, it's a delivery model they really like, because it provides flexibility for long term support in a way that residential care doesn't, enables people to be part of their communities and live within their community. So in areas of supported living, there is a really big growth, you know, requirements. So absolutely, it's something that's only going to carry on growing, there's a lot more demand for these kinds of
Christian Rodwell 16:47
properties. And is there any special funding or additional grants ever available to help with some of these refurbs? And renovations?
Unknown Speaker 16:55
Yeah, yes, there are? Absolutely. There are some, especially Scott's there are a whole load of kind of criteria you have to go through to meet. So they're not available for everything. But a lot of properties don't require adaptations, they just require to be a standard spec that you would for a good quality private rental property. Or they might require an extra fired or an extra smoke alarm somewhere, you know, that kind of low level adaptation. There are people who require really high level adaptations, but that's not the majority. It's really, really the minority of the organisations who are looking for properties. Really, they're mostly looking for good quality properties.
Christian Rodwell 17:30
And the terms of the mortgage, do they differ at all?
Unknown Speaker 17:33
Yeah, mortgages is a real challenge. And that's still my frustration. So you know, you talked I'm sure we talked about this two years ago, and I'm still banging this drum and feeling frustrated that we don't have enough mortgage products. I am at sort of actively campaigning and trying to raise awareness of this, and we're having some interesting conversations at high levels. But I think there are still limited mortgage products out there. The banks and the lenders are concerned about the tenant group, they feel that they could have reputational risk if they needed to repossess a property and evict someone. And so therefore, there's some reluctance from them to lend in this space. There are specialist lenders who do do lend. But I feel like we need to open this up so we get more and more lending, it will open it up and make it easier for everybody to get involved in.
Christian Rodwell 18:17
Yeah. So where do you see things over the next two years or so changing and evolving? Lisa?
Unknown Speaker 18:24
I think it's going to be really interesting, I think if we can open up the lending and make that simpler, make it more accessible for more property investors to get involved. It's not, you know, most property, investors can still access the lending. But if you have, say, you're an overseas investor, or you've got some debt history or something, it is a little bit more complicated to lend to get the lending in this space. So I would really like to see that opening up. And that lending and I think it will people talk to me about you know, how a few years ago HMOs, it was really hard to get an HMO mortgage. And now there's loads around, it was really hard to get an FHA mortgage, and now there's loads around. So I think we will get there and see supported living mortgages being more mainstream, but it's a frustration for me how slow it feels like that's moving, but we'll get there. So hopefully opening the lending up, I think we're gonna see increasing demand. And I think we're going to see, you know, there are real challenges within social care funding. And I think that's going to impact on supported living, you know, this, staff are better paid generally, rather than working with someone with complex needs, they're better paid in Sainsbury's and they are working with someone with some support needs. And that as a society with, you know, with the funding and the issues we have as a country, it's going to be a challenge to work out how we can maintain the care that people need, and maintain the high quality staff and make them feel valued. So that's definitely a real challenge. But I think we're gonna see big demands for these kinds of properties. They're only going to go up so the demand so I think from an investment point of view, it's a really good model to look at. And I think it's a great space to get involved in but I think we need to see collaborate, we need to see people working together to solve some of these real problems that there are
Christian Rodwell 19:59
Yeah. So for investors that perhaps are looking at the next couple of years, the high interest rates now thinking that they're, you know, maybe by to let strategies are not going to stack up now, you would suggest have a look at supported living, see if that could be an alternative for them. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 20:15
absolutely. And I think where people have, people have this misconception that supported living is paid at lhsaa, or lower rates. And there are some organisations that do plhiv rates, but the majority of organisations I'm working with are looking to off the market rent for a property, or close to market rent. So actually, if you're paying, if you're getting market rent for your property, and you're not covering those voids, you're not covering those wear and tear and some of those maintenance issues, you can see how actually you can be net better off, you know, so I think understanding that how the funding model works and understanding supported living, you know, something that people really need to, to, you know, there's, there's a lot of misconceptions around it. And people think, oh, you know, this is this, that, but actually, if you can get your head around how it works, and how the funding works, you can see how you can end up being better off each
Christian Rodwell 21:01
month. Yeah. And you touched on it earlier, but you know, underestimating the power of impact here. So it's not just a financial transaction, it really is the, you know, knowing that you're helping society.
Unknown Speaker 21:14
Yeah, and, you know, knowing that you're creating a home for somebody who struggles to find a property to, to, you know, home is so important for all of us, isn't it a safe, secure home, when you look at Maslow's hierarchy of needs, you know, home insecurity is really, really important for all of us to, to recover from, you know, stressful situations to move on in our lives, or to just be able to maximise our potential, being a part of that, as a property investor is so amazing thing that's transformative for a lot of people. And I think since COVID, you know, I think a lot of people have stopped and reflected on their thinking more about social impact and thinking about how they can do that. And I think with supported living, you've got this way that you can invest, it can be a financially sensible decision. And you can have real impact in the community.
Christian Rodwell 22:02
Yeah, that's brilliant. So Lisa, if someone wants to find out more about what you're doing, how you're supporting your members was the best place for them to go.
Unknown Speaker 22:09
So my website is just Lisa brown.uk. And on there, there's some free resources that people can access as a free guide to finding providers that you can download. And then there's the information about the supportive living property network there where people can find out, you know, what we're doing, how to join us how to build those relationships with providers and access that education. And there's the membership isn't open all the time, but you can join the waiting there. So then you find out when we do open, the majestic.
Christian Rodwell 22:35
Well, we'll share all the links in today's show notes. We Brilliant, thank you so much for sharing today. Lisa, great to have your back and look forward to catching up with you again soon.
Unknown Speaker 22:45
Thanks, Christian. Great to be here. Thank you.
Christian Rodwell 22:49
Great to have Lisa back on the podcast. And reminded me actually from just a few episodes ago, we had one of our wealth coaches, Toby Spanier, and he was talking about how he's also working with local authorities. And his strategy is finding derelict buildings, and bringing those back to life working in collaboration with the authorities and actually getting funding as part of that. So that's got nothing to do with the marketplace
Unknown Speaker 23:12
that's got everything to do with tenacity, and looking for opportunities. And as I said at the beginning of the podcast today, being willing to overcome the inertia. But what a very powerful story she's got to share, you know, which does impact on your net return your ROI being the return on your investment? Because I think it was it's good to hear isn't it that in a world where I suppose you know, the traditional method of securing income from property is its tenants. Yet you normally have that responsibility, don't you have maintenance and dealing with voids. And so there are kind of leakages if you'd like to your capacity. But you working with local authorities working with the combination of care and accommodation together, almost turns it into a commercial venture, and that commerciality switches the risk of the void of the maintenance of repairs and all of those things away from you to somebody else. And that's a good way to reduce your risk. And that's a very powerful one, Chris.
Christian Rodwell 24:26
Absolutely. And just similar to ourselves, we know the importance of having a community of like minded people. And that's something that Lisa has now created. And we talked about the wheel of wealth. This is a step in our process that we teach to our members and the wheel of wealth always begins with education and sometimes people are not sure where to go or who to trust. So the supported living property network is absolutely a trusted place where people can share their experiences with one another and where Lisa is bringing together both sides so those that have the supply with those that need the supply, it's interesting
Unknown Speaker 25:02
because kind of reminded me a bit, Chris of something I did a long time ago, which is the various ROIs when you're looking to raise money, because when you when you listen to Lisa, she almost she didn't say it explicitly, but you could infer it that the care providers wanted to know about property, but they don't speak the property language. And the property, people speak the property language, but don't speak the care language. And it's like two people don't speak the same language. And as a result, although they both want the same thing, they both can create incredible value from the connection. But they're just not able to bridge the gap. Because the language barrier is sort of artificially foggy in between them. And it reminded me of the very similar fogginess that occurs between the investor and somebody who's looking to raise funds to help build more property projects. Someone in supported living, for example, where there's a language gap, I think it was way back in who I don't know what podcast episode, it was Chris, maybe I remember, maybe it was around the 70s or something like that. I don't mean 1970s. I mean, somewhere around podcast, 7374 75, something like that. When I first raised this, and it's a very powerful one, it's worth revisiting one or two of those things. Before I do that, though, Chris, why don't you share a review, because although that's not an ROI, it could be a review of, of our integrity. I'm not going to claim that one is a new one, Chris. But we always like to read out reviews, because it's, I suppose it's testimony to the work that we're doing. And I'm very pleased to hear them. So what have we got this week?
Christian Rodwell 27:01
I'd love to hear for you. I'm never going to ask. I can I can pull out a review. But I've just been back to back with calls today, because we had our academy webinar last week. And we had hundreds attending, which was fantastic. And we invited people to book a call if they wanted to have a chat with me and find out more. So I've been really busy on the phone today. And I got to say, Well, the reason I bring it up is because I want to give Dilawar a shout out because still, I was so lovely in the way that he said he absolutely loves listening to our podcast, he said it's amazing. And he started at episode one. And he's on about episode 45. Now, so he probably won't hear this shout out for another year or so. I wanted to say thank you deal for for your kind words today. But also we've had a great review. In this week. We've had lots and in fact, I'll pull out one from Scott. It's, it's short, but it's very, very welcome and lovely, which says been listening to the podcast for quite a while now and thoroughly enjoyed the shared knowledge, embarking on my wealth builders journey now. And looking forward to it. The systems they have on the induction are quite amazing. So Scott recently joined and really enjoyed speaking with Scott, and now working with him.
Unknown Speaker 28:26
Alright, that's great. Yeah, short and sweet, as you say, and it's good to see a new intake of our membership and, and I think I said on the recording, Chris, if anybody wants a copy of the recording, they could probably get that could mean Is there a link to that? Maybe?
Christian Rodwell 28:43
Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Either reach out to us. Yeah. Hello at wealth builders.co. UK or inside the wealth builders Facebook group, you'll find the link.
Unknown Speaker 28:54
Okay. And I remember I think I said something like I feel like a sort of, you know, a wizard old professor who's welcoming the new students a bit like Albus Dumbledore, I suppose in Hogwarts, where he knows exactly what the students are going to go through with the incredible journey of transformation they're going to go on. So that's a bit of fun, and good for you for well, welcoming the new members and getting some more people on that journey from financial insecurity to financial independence. And, and one of the things that can hold people back of course, crisis is a lack of funds and more so in property then I suppose any other asset or business as well, I suppose, franchising and raising money for business. And I remember that episode, where I talked about seeing three, seeing things through an entrepreneurship lens, which is a different ROIs. And certainly one of the ROIs I think is critical and more important than anything else in town. Trouble is the return of the investment. So that's the Paramount thing. In the lens of the investor, somebody's looking to get a good return on their money. And more often than not, what we see is the the person who's looking to raise money seeing it through the growth and the expansion. And they're seeing the return on the investment. And they're being gung ho and excited. And of course, all of those things, usually, in that kind of create a wealth dynamics space. And, but they're not speaking at the same language and the same speed and the same understanding as those who are listening can have sometimes being fearful of the language that's been spoken. Because wealth brings with it a whole set of new language word, Lisa talking about supported living, and I'm sure there are many people close to listen to this podcast who don't know what supported living is. And we take these things for granted, because we're in involved with it. But you've got to learn new language. And it's difficult when you speak it, to give that same energy to somebody who doesn't. And what tends to happen is, is that there's no meshing, there's there's heat, there's light, there's exchange, but there's no gears that are connecting to turn the value for each side, because when you think about somebody raising money, if the investor gets a great return, they're doing better than the stock market, because I mentioned at the beginning of the podcast, Chris, if you're relying on a market for your wealth, you're doomed. You know, markets do not work. For those people who are not in control. If you're in a market, you're out of control. And if you're out of control, you've got uncertainty. If you've got uncertainty, you cannot build certainty from that. And as a result, you'll never ever create wealth, because you can't do it. Because if you imagine, even in the stock market, you build a pot of money, but then you retire, how do you create a certainty of income from an asset that's fundamentally not certain. There's no compounding, there's no real consistent return, you're just hoping. So the whole point about this is switching to get the other way around. And, and sometimes investing with property people with the right due diligence, and I'm not suggesting anybody should, I'm just saying it's an option. It's in joint ventures, which is pillar number seven, you can become a bank, you can lend to other people, you can take good security, and you can use that as an opportunity to learn, which is a return on intellect. So the speed at which people can learn is accelerated when they get their hands on, it's accelerated when they participate. It's accelerated when they get involved, not just for you, but also, as you'll discover, in future episodes for your children, you want children to get involved, because so many people Google their way. They think they can Google our way to wealth read their way, I just read another book. I'll just watch another video. I'll just Google another answer. Well, that can take you so far. But in reality, what will take you further is hands on experience. And that's what the community does. It brings that opportunity to people to connect, to Watch, Learn, see, understand what needs to be done in a way that you don't get if you just read about it. And I think I mentioned Chris, would you would you kind of like to be operated on by a doctor who has just watched a few videos, seeing a few, you know, operations in practice on a screen and read a few books and got a qualification, but they've never actually touched a patient in their life, you want that you'd be scared to death, and you should be. And suddenly, don't build your wealth from a place of just looking at yourself, get your ROI Return on intellect, by being involved in a community. And I commend that to anybody to think about that. And if you're a developer, or if you're someone who's in business, think about how you can share what it is you do, how you add value, how you create returns for others, and what you're doing to serve them. Because then that reassures the investor exactly how it works. Because what's their alternative? The stock market? Does anybody know how the stock market works? I mean, you can't control it. So you can maybe understand some aspects of it, but there's nothing you can really do to control that. So there's a couple of ROIs Chris, to get his kick started and give you a chance to jump in, you look like you're ready, willing and able, with a little bit of wisdom of your own,
Christian Rodwell 34:38
no doubt, just wanted to recap, in case anyone, you know, hadn't picked up on those. They were sort of subtly woven in there. So of course, first one was a reason to overcome inertia. Yeah. And then the return of your investment and then you're just talking about the return
Unknown Speaker 34:53
on internet X. Yeah. And that's because, you know, you know, you can't build wealth without education. That's That's, that's the foundation stone of everything you know, because if you don't understand it, you can't do it. And education helps bridge that understanding gap. So it's education plus support plus community is the perfect kind of keystone of the three building blocks that make that work, education support community. And that's really, what we do within wealth builders is kind of focus on those three things. The other ROI, which I think is critical, and we mentioned, connecting, and in a world where we're still kind of relatively new, experiencing things outside the pandemic, and in some cases, we're just really meeting and getting to meet people, I met with one of my SAS groups, Chris, some people I work with, and I hadn't seen him for three years. You know, I met them in London, we went for a meal together last week. And, you know, we just, we're so thrilled to be to be able to get together again. And that togetherness is a return on interaction. It's that that little buzz you get from the interaction with people, as opposed to just the interaction on Zoom, or the interaction on the podcast, is much more powerful and fundamental. And it speaks to the very heart of who we are as humans, that we crave interaction. So seek that out. And if you're a developer, or business owner, then give give someone who's going to work with you a step by step process to show them what that interaction looks like, you know, they're going to, I love the interaction of things like site visits, Chris, you know, where you can go and look at different sites, and you can wander around, and you can be a child again, you know, you can wear a hard hat, wear a high vis jacket, and, and almost giggle about it. And you feel like you're really part of something which isn't normal, because kids do that grown ups don't do that. They learn things in in different ways. So this is a fun and interesting way to do that. So we're all about experiences, aren't we, Chris? Trying to bring that and that's definitely something I'd like to showcase for the future is more site visits, more opportunities to go see what some of our members are doing? And we'll bring that in the future as well. And then that return on impact? What are you doing? That's good for society? Clearly, Lisa's doing great work as a societal impact, isn't it? It gives homes to people, it brings properties to life, he makes connections work. So I love that return on impact. And if you think about what you're doing, in terms of what are you doing that's good for society? Is it green? Is it environmentally friendly? Are you making a difference to the world? Are you making differences to a few people? And how you doing that? And can you show that you are outstanding at that. And that comes back to the idea of the niche. So be outstanding in a niche, don't think about markets, think about how you can be outstanding in your own niche. And that's the best way to accelerate your wealth. So reason to overcome inertia, return of investment, return on intellect, return on interaction, return on impact. And then and only then, do you think about what's the return of my investment? Return on sorry, I'm getting even getting myself a bit mixed up. But I'm not really return on the investment, what's the return that I'm getting? And if you can combine all of those things, isn't that much better. If you can get all of those ROIs wrapped up in an investment and get a decent return on your investment? That's a very powerful thing. And if you're a developer, if you're somebody who's in business, and you're seeking that private capital, and you do it well, and you do it outstandingly well guess what else, you get close, you get the return of the investor, they're come back, they don't want to put their money back on the stock market, put their money back in cash, they want to do it again, because they enjoyed it. And that's why communication throughout that process is the key. And very often with developers we talked to Chris, there's, they just focused on the deal. They just focused on the next thing. And I focused on the relationship. It's more about the transaction. I think life is about relationships, which is why our Trustpilot reviews speak so warmly, of what we do, because we don't rush into relationships. We don't rush into transactions. We try and build that relationship gradually. And that people find that a reason to overcome inertia for themselves. And when they do, they know we're here because everything we do says this is what we do at wealth builders units. Anyway, I've ranted on enough about that question. I hope that was useful.
Christian Rodwell 39:41
Yeah. A great recap. And for anyone that wants to hear us talk a little bit more about how to become investable. That was episode 74. of wealth talk. So we'll link to that one. In today's show notes as well. Cool. And tonight 30th of November, if anyone's tuned in. On the day of release, we are holding our final webinar of 2022. And this is a SAS webinar, SAS pensions, how to grow your business and wealth with a SAS pension. So, you've heard us talk about this on the podcast, but you still don't really know exactly what is it all about, then tonight is the perfect opportunity to jump on. And you'll be with our SAS director Paul Brooks. So me know. And that's why we've been going to have a night off. You and Paul,
Unknown Speaker 40:31
were just saying you're looking a bit knackered, Chris, you could probably do with it.
Christian Rodwell 40:36
Yeah, so so definitely register. If you'd like to join Kevin and Paul for that webinar, head to wealth builders.co.uk forward slash SAS webinar. That's s s a s webinar. All one word. And yeah, we look forward to seeing you there. Okay,
Unknown Speaker 40:54
it was a good episode, Chris,
Christian Rodwell 40:55
I think yeah. Thanks to Lisa. Once again, always love to have lessor on the show. And you and I, Kevin will catch up Same time, same place next week.
Unknown Speaker 41:03
We will indeed and until then my friend see you.
Unknown Speaker 41:09
We hope you enjoy today's episode. Don't forget that we are constantly updating our resources inside the wealth builders membership site to help you create, build and protect your wealth. Head over to wealth builders.co.uk/membership right now for free access. That's wealth builders.co.uk/membership
Transcribed by https://otter.ai