As business owners and entrepreneurs we are always striving to create more value for our clients and customers. Sometimes, however, this value is over-looked and under-protected. Jonathan Clegg is a Trademark Attorney and IP Practitioner who helps businesses to register and protect their intellectual property in the form of trademarks and patents. Jonathan explains the four main types of intellectual property and the benefits of protecting them, including ‘monopoly right’s’ - an exclusive control of the production and selling of certain goods. Featured Guest: Jonathan Clegg, www.csy-ip.com
Resources Mentioned In This Episode:
>> https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/intellectual-property-office
>> Register for Free Access to the WealthBuilders Membership Site
https://www.wealthbuilders.co.uk/membership
If you have been enjoying listening to WealthTalk - Please Leave Us A Review!
Unknown Speaker 0:01 The purpose of wealth talk is to educate, inform and hopefully entertain you on the subject of building your wealth. Wealth builders recommends you should always take independent financial tax or legal advice before making any decisions around your finances. To
Christian Rodwell 0:20
Episode 57 of wealth talk, my name is Christian Rodwell, the membership director for wealth builders. And I'm joined today by our founder Mr. Kevin Whelan. Hi, Kevin.
Unknown Speaker 0:28
Hello, Chris in glorious isolation yet again. So all go home?
Christian Rodwell 0:34
Well, it's it's Themis net, because we're protecting ourselves at the moment. And today's episode is all about a protection of rights protecting and of course,
Unknown Speaker 0:42
this is an important area particularly is those of us who are serious, Chris about creating value, while forwards flows to value we know that and one of the ways to create value is to create intellectual property. Indeed,
Christian Rodwell 0:55
yeah. So we have a guest today and that guest is Jonathan Clark. He's a trademark Attorney so he's a man who certainly knows. And the importance of registering one's IP and IP really is, you know, it's a it's a it's an umbrella, isn't it for many different forms of, of knowledge. I guess they're they're packaged up in a value to, to an individual or business.
Unknown Speaker 1:19
Yeah. And I think there's there's two aspects to this. First of all, just in terms of context, Jonathan is a generous, spirited man gives him his time freely. And I have to thank him personally, actually, because he gave my son who's doing a postgraduate law degree, some time, some personal time, in terms of helping him just understand a little more about that aspect of the law. And you can appreciate he's funny listen to him is extraordinarily knowledgeable in areas not just affecting SMEs, but large companies too. So so let me acknowledge your generosity. The second thing to say is you You know, when we think about value, and we think about value is the end user, you know, we're always trying to strive to create more value for, for a customer. But of course, we must protect our own value. And one of the things that he speaks very eloquently about Chris is the four different ways that IP is kind of constructed in law. And I leave him to explain more about that. But in all areas, you know, there's a very, very strong reason that we should protect what we've got. And sometimes because we don't know this aspect of the law very much, it can be easily overlooked. So I think if we have a listen to what he has to say in about those four key areas, then we'll take a few minutes just to debrief that Christian pass on the lessons not just for IP, but the wealth lessons as well. Sounds good.
Christian Rodwell 2:50
And just before we do head over to our interview today with Jonathan, I'd like to give a shout out to our latest couple of reviews on iTunes and thank you to M Ventus And after selling our business, we were looking for a podcast that taught us how to establish long term wealth. And this was like finding gold and actually gel. So
Unknown Speaker 3:10
yeah, had a nice chat with Michelle and her husband, Dan.
Christian Rodwell 3:14
absolutely lovely people, and they fully embraced some of our messages. And we've engaged with him now. I'm so delighted that they're part of our community, indeed. And Dr. Mr. X has said, I have listened on and off to this podcast for over a year now. And I'm grateful for the wealth, that and range of useful and sensible information shared on this platform. For example, this podcast has spiked my interest in looking for other pillars of wealth building, rather than depending on one pillar alone. So thank you very much, Dr. Mr. X for that review.
Unknown Speaker 3:46
And a critical lesson, of course, isn't it because you know what, one of the big lessons that these troubled times to show us Chris says the importance of having a diversification in terms of our wealth building assets. And as we're talking now about protecting those assets, let's have a listen to Jonathan.
Unknown Speaker 4:05
Jonathan, welcome to wealth talk.
Unknown Speaker 4:07
Thanks very much, Chris. Thanks for inviting me know, you're
Christian Rodwell 4:10
very welcome. And it's probably a good place just to start by introducing yourself and what you do.
Unknown Speaker 4:14
Yeah, well, I'm, I'm an IP practitioner, I specialise in trademarks, which means that I help businesses to protect well to clear for registration and then to register their trademarks and brands around the world, and then to enforce those brands and to keep clear water around the rights that we've helped them to get. And I act I've been in the business for 30 odd years. And I act for a wide variety of types of business across different sectors, from very large companies, to a lot of SMEs and startups and small businesses too. So, as a firm, my firm is active in the IP sector, predominantly in patents and trademarks, which are the two top types of IP, although we advise on all sorts of other IP related things, too. But my particular speciality is trademarks.
Christian Rodwell 5:02
Okay, fantastic. So, you know, we're talking about intellectual property pillar at the moment, which essentially is taking some knowledge, some some way of doing something, and then packaging that up to be a value to other people. So, you know, some of the things that we've discussed under the IP pillar up writing a book or creating a course or, or a system that as you say, might be able to licence to other people. What are the common types of IP outside of those that you deal with most Jonathan?
Unknown Speaker 5:32
Yeah, well, I intellectual property as you as you and many listeners, I think will realise is an umbrella term is an umbrella term for a variety of different rights which are available to businesses, some of which require you to go and register those rights apply for them, and they have to be examined and then if they're granted you get your your rights. Some of them just exist, and you simply have to prove that you own them in order to assert right but the main types are first of all pattern. A patent is something that protects an invention. That could be a pro a business process, it could be a mechanical object, it could be a medical device or a pharmaceutical vaccine. And in essentially, that is protected by registration. And if you get your patent registered, you have exclusivity in that invention for 20 years subject to renewals. So that can be hugely valuable if you have an important patent. I suspect that actually most of people listening to this may may be in a position where it's the second type of IP that's potentially more important, which is trademark registration. A trademark and this isn't maybe the definition of a trademark may not be apparent to everyone. But a trademark is actually a very broad concept. It's essentially a commercial badge of origin, which links particular products or services with the business that's behind those products and services. In other words, you see the brand and you think of the business behind it, you know that the brand is associated with that business and brand is a very broad word, which sort of the idea of a brand is it is it creates expectations in consumers of high standard and good quality products or good delivery of a service. And that can then create reputation and then goodwill. And those things are tied in obviously with the value of a company. So, trademarks as they're used and as a business builds goodwill under those trademarks can become extremely valuable assets, you do have to apply to register a trademark is not a rubber stamping process like registering a domain name or company name as an examination that goes with it. And the reason for that is that when you get that registration granted, you can essentially enjoy a monopoly in that trademark, which is last as long as you pay renewals which are which is every 10 years but you there's no limit of term on a trademark. So once you've got it, and assuming it's a con A common thread in your business that is consistently used, it can become an extremely valuable right. And the other thing is that it's almost every business would benefit from at least one trademark registration, protecting its core name or its primary brand or server.
Unknown Speaker 8:19
By way of example, trademark could be a word it could be a logo, and it could have aspects of colour that are protectable trademark can be the shape of a product. So some perfume bottles and distinctive drinks bottles have been actually registered as three dimensional trademarks. Trade dress, so the way that a store and, you know, a business is actually set up visually can be protected, even sounds. Think of some quite annoying little ditties out there when you watch advertisements on TV. Some of those have actually been registered as trademarks because again, it's a badge of origin. You hear that piece of music, you think of direct line Whatever you think of whoever it is that is behind that. So those two, I'd say the most important types of IP in most cases, but there's also a type of AI people to register design. And that is also gives you a monopoly. So it's a strong right. A register design exists in relation to the shape or appearance of a product. So it's kind of aesthetic aspects of so if you have a distinctive sofa, for example, or a table or a you know that that particular manifestation is not that the sofa is new is that your design of that sofa is new, and that would be outside trademark registration, but it would be protectable by registered design. And designs also protect things like pattern and ornamentation when that's applied to a product. So you apply for those registered designs. In that case, the term is 25 years and is renewable every five years. So that's a bit like patents it it has a finite life. A trademark can be registered forever. Once you have it. And then the fourth and final one I would mentioned, the main type of IP is copyright. Now copyright is not a what we call a monopoly, right? So it's not a type of IP that you have to apply for. If you are the author in quotes of a of original material or work is it's the word used in legislation, you're the author of a particular work, then you automatically own copyrights in what you've created. And that allows you to stop unauthorised duplication by third parties. It applies to all sorts of things that applies to books to other printed matter. So for example, literature about companies in in their marketing collateral, for example, would be subject to copyright works of art, of course, music, computer software, if there's copyright in the code, believe it or not, I mean, you actually have copyright in a, you know, phone directory, if you actually format that numbers in a certain way. You'd have copyright in that. So and Better main four times, I would just draw the distinction between what we would refer to as monopoly rights, which is where you apply for a piece of property to be granted, you know, registration around that piece of IP. That applies to patents, trademarks, and registered designs. And then other types of IP, which are sometimes referred to as property rights, like copyright, where it just exists. But the big differences when you come to assert your rights against third party, if you're trying to go after someone for copyright, you have to prove that they actually copied you. If it's coincidentally similar, that's not enough. Whereas for trademarks, designs and patterns, the court doesn't care whether it's coincidental, accidental, or deliberate, you infringe, so it's a much more powerful, right.
Christian Rodwell 11:44
And that's interesting. For anyone who hasn't been through the process before. Jonathan, can you just give us an idea of the you know, the costs involved? The length of time involved? Is it complicated?
Unknown Speaker 11:57
Yeah, so I mean, talk, let's talk About trademarks first because I think that would be the most relevant one. So a trademark is your registered trademark by going to the UK Intellectual Property Office, the UK IPO. And you file an application there in which you declare what your trademark is. Or you put a representation of it in the application form. You set out the products and services that your business wants protection for. Because there's a you obviously at the end of the day, you don't get rights to use a trademark on any goods and services, you get rights, on the goods and services you've actually specified as being part of your business relevant to your business. So you specify those goods and services. And then the UK IPO examines that application on various criteria and examines it for example on is it distinctive enough to be registered and distinctive is a key word. I can illustrate that by giving an example if you if you take the word jigsaw. jigsaw is a very effective trademark for clothing products, because there's no conceptual link between the words or clothing. Whereas if you applied to register jigsaw for power tools or for puzzles, that would just simply be a description of what the goods are and and basically, you can't register the words chocolate biscuits if you sell chocolate biscuits, because it's generic. So the whole thing about having a distinctive trademark, which is another way of saying a strong trademark, is really key. And that's where advice can help, actually, because at the beginning of the process, it's understandably a lot of people who don't have exposure to this kind of area would assume that the more you describe what you're doing in your brand, the better brand it is. It is almost true that it's the other way around. It isn't quite true, because of course, a lot of businesses come up with words that actually infer a connection with what their products and services are, but they don't directly describe them. If they directly describe them. The UK IPO will refuse the application. If they just allude to them or sort of have some connotation that's relevant to the goods and services. You'll get your registration. But arguably, you know, you won't have the strongest trademark, I mean, the best sorts of marks are either ones like jigsaw or on clothing where there's no link, or else invented words like Pepsi or Kodak or, you know where, you know that that there's a lot of potential then for growing that and making that into a trademark where where you effectively have rights on anything once you've got enough reputation. So yeah, and in terms of timeframe, UK IPO would normally take it would normally be a start to finish process of about three or four months, which includes a two month period where third parties have an opportunity to object to your application, which they might want to do because they have another type of prior right that they think you're in conflict with. And so there's an opposition process, the vast majority of applications are not objected to. And you know, actually, if you do the due diligence before you file the trademark application which we'll come on to later, then you you're minimising the risk of getting a problem. So in the absence of problems, it's going to be three or four months from start to finish in terms of costs. I mean, you know, to, you have to that's linked to how many goods and services you want to cover, we've been divided into lots of classes. That's another reason why it's a little bit of advice can help you because you can get someone to tell you, I mean, if, for example, you you know, you have a retail platform that sells clothing products, and online, you know, web business that sells clothing products, where you would want to cover the sale of, of clothing, which would be in one class, but you'd also want to cover retail services as as a as a service rather than as the delivery of products. And you might want to cover, you know, things like the sale of advertising space within your web platform where you might want be able to sell space to third party so there's, there's there's things around the scope of the application. Which are where I think a little bit of help can can be a good idea. And yeah, but in terms of cost, you know, for, if you're just finding in one class of goods or services, then it's going to be, you know, on the order of, I didn't know, between about six or 700 pounds start to finish, including government fees. That would be if you used someone like us to help you. I mean, you can't. Patients as a company on your own, you can file them yourselves. But I'm just saying that you need to be a bit careful about it. It's in the business's interest to frame the application in an optimal way, so that you're preserving your position in other countries for later or whatever it may be. There's a number of things around that.
Unknown Speaker 16:49
Yeah, but it's not a high cost. process. If you get into third party issues, it can be more expensive, but obviously at any given point you you have You have the opportunity to walk away and choose another trademark. On that point, I just make one other comment, which is that it's generally speaking much better to
Unknown Speaker 17:13
is it you basically.
Unknown Speaker 17:17
So just slightly off my throat hear this, but we'll have to be.
Unknown Speaker 17:23
Yeah. Anyway, I'll come back to that a minute. Yeah. So essentially, the cost is quite low overall. And
Unknown Speaker 17:31
and that gets your trademark registration in the UK.
Unknown Speaker 17:35
Beyond that, of course, there's the thing about trademarks, is they jurisdictional by nature, so you're not getting worldwide rights for that? We're getting rights in the UK. And if many of the wealth builders clients are UK focused, that's fine. But obviously, there's the question of the European Union, the US or the countries and there are various things that you can do to optimise your position in those things. Countries that gets more expensive. But of course, if the business is successful, that's justified. A lot of our clients would be registering, at least in the UK, the EU and the US. You know, and often many more countries for the bigger companies.
Christian Rodwell 18:16
Okay, so clearly there's a benefit to protecting your trademarks so that someone can't steal or copy your brand or your idea of any other benefits to protecting your IP. Jonathan.
Unknown Speaker 18:26
Yeah, there are I mean, first of all, as I alluded to earlier,
Unknown Speaker 18:33
a trade a trademark is a piece of intellectual property when you get a registered trademark, that is something that can be bought and sold. So it's, it's an asset of the of the company but as a value. When you if you file that trade when you first file a trademark and you haven't really used it, it's an unused mark. But you're This is what you intend to do. So you get your registration in place first, which is the best way to go And then at that point, the inherent value of that registration, you know, may not be hugely high, it's still high in the sense that you've claimed that trademark from that date. And anyone else trying to register the same or a similar trademark to yours will find your ones in the way of it. So you've got an advantage over competitors in in that sense. But as you then launch your product or service and you use it, you get a reputation. That's when goodwill grows under that trademark registration. And that's when the value really starts to ramp up. Because remember that a trademark registration is a monopoly right? It gives the owner a monopoly in that trademark and not just that trademark, but any trademarks which are legally similar in quotes to that trademark, and that is potentially very valuable. So that's one one other advantage. Another thing is that as these are the third parties as your reputation grows under a trademark. Actually there are a raft of other rights under that registration which open up to you. There are rights which are granted by the UK trademark that only for trademarks, which are registered and which have reputation. For example, if you are if you're Pepsi, if you own the Pepsi trademark, you one of these rights would be to enable you to stop third parties from using the same mark, even if their product area is totally different. And that only comes with reputation. It stands to reason you shouldn't have that very wide rise unless you have a reputation with Pepsi. If you saw Pepsi on a bicycle, you'd assume that there'd been some commercial tie up with Pepsi as a minimum. And you might be wrong on that maybe the bicycle is a terrible bicycle, everyone pulls off them and they fall apart. That then doesn't reflect well on the brand Pepsi. So Pepsi would be interested in that because they can serve themselves across the board.
Christian Rodwell 20:52
So that's another benefit. And are there any downsides in not taking steps to protect your trademarks?
Unknown Speaker 20:58
Yeah, I mean that that big one. And this is counterintuitive to, to a lot of businesses. But the the, the trademark law regime in the UK and indeed in the EU, is basically that the rights in a trademark, with one or two exceptions go with the first party to register that trademark, not the first party to use that trademark. So that means you could use the trademark and not bother to register it. And in that period before you realised you should register it, someone else comes along and registers, let's say the identical mark, they, you it would be for you to knock them off that position, then it's not saying it'd be impossible to assert your rights, but you'd have to prove that at the time they filed their application, your prior use gave rise to what's called a passing off right, which is a not a registered right. It's a common law, right? But which is a very high evidential burden and horribly expensive to prove. So, you know, in a sense, if you neglect to register a trademark, you open up to third parties getting in with intervening rights, which might then be a blog for you. So that's that's one thing. The other thing is it's harder to build value in a brand without a registration, simply because the registration is a tangible asset. what not, it's actually an intangible asset, but it's, it's an asset of the company. And it's an IT and there is a specific registration there that can be bought and sold. With goodwill. It's a much more nebulous thing. It's it's harder to define and it often attaches to trademark registrations and becomes tied up in the value of the trademark. And that's an easier way to quantify it and then to effectively leverage that value.
Christian Rodwell 22:42
Hmm. You mentioned due diligence earlier, Jonathan, now we have we'll have wealth, wealth builders, and that's education support, connection, due diligence and action. So due diligence, very important for any asset talk about the importance of due diligence when it comes to Intellectual Property plays.
Unknown Speaker 23:02
Yeah, it's a very important area this and I hope that this will resonate, given what we've been talking about up to now, as a preliminary thing, I would just stress and this is sort of due diligence, we'll come on to the other points in a second. But this point about your trademark being distinctive, is actually part of the due diligence if you if you think about investing in your business, because if you choose a trademark that is, number one easier to register, and number two easier to enforce than one that is not distinctive, then you are going to make a whole cost around developing that brand. Less expensive and more and the trademark be more valuable to the end of the day. So I think it's really important at the stage when you're creating your brand to actually think about coming up with a trademark that is, in fact distinctive. Okay, so let's assume you've done that and you've got your trademark, you know, you at least you've identified what you want to monopolise with a register The next question is, are there any pre existing trademark rights or indeed other IP rights out there, which would give a give you a problem, which would in fact, be an infringement risk if you launched your trademark in the face of that pre existing monopoly rights. And the way to tackle that is by means of doing primarily trademark searches of the relevant trademark registers, which is where all these rights are listed. There are two two levels of this. The first is where you check essentially pre existing identical or near identical trademarks to the one you want. That is, can be done pretty cheaply. For you know, several hundred pounds you can have a good look at anything that is a direct hit or anything that is nearly a directed. If any of those types of trademarks come up, then, and you're the new owner, you haven't actually launched your mark yet. Then the best thing to do is to choose another trademark at that point. Because you don't want to launch a trademark or brand because you like the trademark, knowing there's a potential issue and then spend loads of money trying to defend your position, it's much better to go back to the point one thing, let's find one that no one else has. So the person identical searches effectively as to prove a negative very cheaply. It doesn't however, prove the positive and the reason it doesn't prove the positive by which I mean that the trademark is secure to for you to adopt is that trademark rights extend to similar trademarks as well as identical one. So they could be similar pre existing trademarks, not identical marks, similar ones that you would miss if you just did a quick identical search. So we call these searches full trademark searches. And that would be where someone like me would conduct that search for you get the best possible data in and then essentially, write a memo a note of you know, of any tangible significant infringer. risks that are there with advice as to whether this is worth trying to get round or whether it's, it's a fatal risk. And those sorts of searches can cost Well, they would cost seven or 800 pounds upwards to I mean, I, I've had them where they've been as high as 1500. But the norm would be between 709 hundred or thousand. And that would give you actually quite a high level of comfort around that trademark before you embark on the registration process. And before you launch and spend lots of other money on it. So the big lesson really is if you're in business, if you've got something of value, you shouldn't wait around, you should just start now. Absolutely. And the other piece of advice that's really key is if you can, you should try to do your due diligence and get your trademark application filed before you actually launch or soon after you launch. So the point is that once you've launched and you're using the trademark, but you haven't filed you are technically vulnerable to In intervening right getting in the way, but I realised in a perfect world and there will be people listening to this who think Well, I've been using my trademark for a while and I haven't registered it does that mean I'm in terrible trouble? Well, no, it doesn't necessarily because you will have built up some passing off or common law rights by virtue of your use so you're not completely without rights. And also you might be lucky there may be no intervening rights. It's just that you know, it gets more complicated if there are
Christian Rodwell 27:25
Jonathan thank you for being our guest on wealth talk today.
Unknown Speaker 27:28
pleasure thank you.
Christian Rodwell 27:31
Okay, so lesson I picked up on there Kevin was certainly if you've got something of value that you shouldn't wait around to register that you should get that done as soon as possible.
Unknown Speaker 27:40
Yeah, I mean, it's not about being paranoid but it's just the important thing about you know, creating value and acknowledging to yourself really that you have created something of value and this is a big wealth lesson and I think Chris that many people overlooked on the the value they've got, you know, the fact they've they've created Something obviously, you know, things which are extraordinarily valuable. Like, I think Jonathan talked about patents, you know that there would be obvious wouldn't you painted something that's unusual, that's rare. That's a gift. And most of us probably will never have a pain in our life. But but but some will, and they'll recognise that and they'll immediately want to register because it gives you protection for you, I think 2025 years depending on what you're doing, you're to talk about designs, if you've got something very specific, again, that would be creative, that that's very much a specialist domain. But as we create businesses, though, Chris, and we create businesses that are beginning to get traction or our idea is well researched enough to create traction, then it doesn't do any damage at all. To begin to register the trademark. So to me the issue is less about the peyten. It's less about the design, obviously copyright. We have already Authors You and I, we have our own copyright. But to me the most powerful lesson in there is trademark. Because I don't know if you picked up the strength of his argument here, Chris, that if you have a trademark, you've got a monopoly. And a monopoly, not the game now, but monopoly exclusive excludes everybody else, which means you've got incredible power, and that monopoly is in time dated. It's forever. And if you think about wealth building is a process that ultimately leads through to legacy and passing things on. Then by registering the trademark of whatever your intended business or indeed established business, the more valuable that becomes and if we think about, you know, the journey that we're on when we engage in wealth as a transformational one, we know this to be true, Chris. Don't worry that when people go through the lessons and businesses, because wealth is a business in the end, as they create the business, more and more and more, they transform, and when they transform, they get better. When they get better, they get stronger, and they get more powerful. And that leads to more value. So you don't want to be creating incredible value and then five years down the line, you go back and say, Well, I really should register that mark, and then find that actually, somebody else has got there ahead of you. So I think it's important not to knee jerk it, but for a few hundred pounds. So we're not talking about lots in many cases, you know, you may want to engage with some help. But in some cases, like doing a lasting power of attorney Chris, you know, these are documents that you can do yourself. When Jonathan says yes, be cautious, but at the beginning, it's something you could do for a few hundred pounds. And then you protected yourself giving yourself a monopoly and then if your business does become more valuable. And you do take the lessons of the business that should work commercially without you with recurring income, then if you manage to do that, you're going to have not just the value of the business, but the value of the mark. And the trademark plus the value of the business together can give you a much more powerful outcome. So I would commend anybody to be thinking about doing that. I think it's important for us to assess we try and help people we'll probably put together some sort of a guide or checklist maybe using some of the great lawyers we have in our own community, Chris to help us as well to see if we can't just, you know issue some sort of guidance and and help people decide what best to do.
Christian Rodwell 31:48
Absolutely. And, of course, we talk about drifters and di wires and some people will want to DIY this and that's absolutely fine. I will just say that you know, do do be careful when you go One line, there's many companies, which kind of you know, will will pop up on Google saying they can help you with it. So if you want to go to the official site, do make sure you go to the government trademarks ipo.gov.uk that will give you the correct information. You can also search for trademarks there and see if your mark is taken or not. And but you know, one thing Jonathan said, Kevin is a trademark isn't an intangible asset of the company. It really is that kind of protective wrapper, isn't it that will add value as your company and business grows. Absolutely. I think it's making
Unknown Speaker 32:34
the point that I just made a few minutes ago, Chris, that, you know, lots of assets are intangible, but they become tangible when somebody wants to buy them. So, you know, an acquirer is always looking for something of distinction. I mean, if you've got a business you can sell and together with that sale, you've got an established monopoly of that trademark, then your business can have more value. So definitely That's something that you should look out. And like all things in life, you know, there are some things you should try. And there's some things, if you've got complexity you need to take good guidance on. And I think that's not for me to say, but you'll know the complexity or the simplicity of where you are right now in your business building life. And there's no substitute. I think, as Jonathan said, that if you have got a complex business, you have got things that, you know, could cause a problem, or you need to register them in different countries, because of the very nature of what you're trying to do. I think taking advice is always a good thing. Because the value of advice is always more than the cost of that advice in the end. So a bit more difficult with this one, because it's always looking backwards. But an important lesson on the lesson. I think it was valid valuable to share all of those things, particularly for me that monopoly point, which I think was outstanding,
Christian Rodwell 33:56
indeed, well, I'll put some links in today's show notes to people that Want to follow and, and find out a little bit more. And as always, if you're not already a member of the wealth builders Facebook community, then do join us there you can join by heading to wealth builders co.uk forward slash Facebook. And I think that's pretty much it for today's episode Kevin. So, I dare say we will catch up again, very soon on the next episode of wealth talk.
Unknown Speaker 34:23
Until next time, Chris Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 34:27
We hope you enjoy today's episode. Don't forget that we are constantly updating our resources inside the wealth builders membership site to help you create, build and protect your wealth. Head over to wealth builders.co.uk slash membership right now for free access. That's wealth builders.co.uk slash membership