In today's episode we are joined by Neil Moggan and Dan Britton, who are both teachers. They tell us about how they are helping children and teenagers learn the rules of money at an early age. Make sure to tune in to hear about how money habits and beliefs are formed at a young age and how you can teach your kids personal finance.
Why isn't personal finance adequately taught in school? Our money habits and beliefs are often formed in early childhood, prior to the age of seven. Therefore, having discussions with your kids and engaging them in a small part of the overall wealth of the family can be very beneficial for them in the long run. In this week’s episode of WealthTalk, we welcome Neil Moggan and Dan Britton, both Teachers, to talk about why they are both so passionate about helping children and teenagers to learn the rules of money at an early age.
Resources Mentioned In This Episode:
>> Dan Britton - The Financial Fairytales Website
>> Neil Moggan Future Action Website
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Unknown Speaker 0:01 The purpose of wealth talk is to educate, inform, and hopefully entertain you on the subject of building your wealth. Wealth builders recommends you should always take independent financial tax or legal advice before making any decisions around your finances.
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Welcome to Episode 87 of wealth talk. My name is Christian Rodwell, the membership director for wealth builders. And I'm joined today by our founder, Mr. Kevin Whalen. Hi, Kevin. Hello, Chris. And welcome back to these rainy shores from your sunny escape in
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the Canary Islands, yes, cut short. But still an enjoyable week in the sun nonetheless. So good to be back in the hot seat again with you, Kevin. And last week, we were talking to Ross Hayworth and we were talking about the the aspects of going into business with your family. And, you know, we have some great feedback on that. And we're carrying on the theme this week, naturally, now looking at the role of financial literacy, and with the younger generation. So specifically teaching entrepreneurship and understanding of money in schools. Yeah, it's a subject very close to my heart, Chris. And as you know, financial literacy or its, you know, has a multitude of sins that one, doesn't it, it kind of means people understanding more about the subject, not just our finance, but of wealth, of understanding, you know, how you can position, money and all the freedoms that go with that from a very early age. And that's a big and a daunting task. And no wonder. It's not on the curriculum. However, the school curriculum has really been predicated on old traditions of, you know, getting studying hard on your own getting a good job. And assuming that people will stay in that employment for a very long time. And we're passionate about people adding value and creating entrepreneurial skills, and playing on teams, as opposed to seeing themselves in jobs. And I think the two guests that we have today, share those values, don't they? They do. Yes, both of them come from a teaching background. And it's interesting, I was just listening to the radio this morning, Kevin, obviously, you know, kind of in the second wave in and out of the second wave at the moment, and you know, talking about online learning, which has just rapidly had to accelerate, it's been forced to, you know, really take hold this year, and just questioning, how does that work, because people learn differently. And obviously, the the lack of connection, which is another fundamental aspect of what we're talking about wealth builders, you know, just sitting at home learning from a computer is a very different experience for kids, but one, perhaps, that they're going to have to start getting used to. Yeah, I think the online learning is been a feature of what's been happening in COVID. And certainly with the use of technology. And of course, it's more relevant now for parents to be aware of what their kids are doing online. And to be part of that educational choice, rather than sort of, you know, see that they're on something and trust that they're doing the right thing. And I think, increasingly older generation are becoming disenfranchised from the technology. And there is a challenge, you know, money's often a taboo subject across the divide of different generations, isn't it? Chris? I think the both of the guests today, kind of referenced that point. And I can say, certainly, from my own viewpoint, Monday was never really talked about, it was never really discussed, it was certainly never inclusive. And I think probably what we're trying to do, by introducing the subject and getting it debated, is to try and suggest that keeping it in the family, having discussions with kids, not at a high level, you know, not to try and bore them, but to try and engage them in small parts of their overall wealth of the family. And we'll talk about that over probably Chris's series of episodes, I think. It seems like it's got traction, the whole idea. I mean, I remember from some of the groups that I had, just a few years ago, Chris, you know, those people who were well on the way to establishing their financial independence and moving forward through to abundance, the most popular subject that they wanted covered, was how to engage the teenage generation, in the subject of being involved in the overall wealth. And that's definitely something we'll we'll be pushing that agenda over the coming weeks and, and also in the long term as far as wealth builders is concerned. So we're kicking off our series of conversations now with Dan Britton. And Dan has written a series of books called financial fairytale. So we're here from Dan first
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And then we'll hear from one of our new members who has recently joined the census wealth program. That's Neil Morgan. And Neil will share some of the ideas that he's had around this subject. So let's head on over to those conversations right now. Dan, welcome to wealth talk today. Oh, lovely to be here. Good to have you on Dan, longtime friend of wealth builders. So you understand our seven pillar concept. And it's going to be very enjoyable speaking to you today and finding out exactly what are the financial fairytales. Dan, so why don't we begin there? Cool. Yeah, well, lovely to be here, Chris. So the financial fairytales was an idea I had to teach younger children, important money, ideas and concepts. And typically around the kind of five to eight years old,
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I sort of came to a financial awareness quite late in life.
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And read a lot of information when a lot of courses and so on. And information I was I was picking up was that our money habits and beliefs are often formed in early childhood, prior to the age of seven. So I thought, well, wouldn't it be great if we planted some positive seeds in children about money and about positive beliefs and so on, at that age, and then when they grew up, they wouldn't have to kind of unpick all the all the damage that they've accumulated, which was, which was my situation. So that was that was the incentive behind it. Okay. And then what were the next steps that you took?
Unknown Speaker 6:32
Well, I am the kind of story I was working a lot in primary schools. I was doing some consultancy, work training teachers a lot around it systems and so on, completely unrelated. But they knew that I was interested in money. And I had a banking background. I one day at one school I was working in. And it was it was a lovely bright primary school. I don't know if you spent much time in primary schools, but these are the ward displays are all lively colors, and the kids are all super excited. And staff are enthusiastic. And it's a lovely vibrant place to be. And they said, Oh, you'll enjoy it in tomorrow, we've got a money talk, the guy is going to come in and talk to the kids about money. And I thought yeah, I'll be part of that. That sounds like fun. So picture the scene you've got you know, maybe 100 150 youngsters real tiny little kids or SAT cross legged on a sports hall flooring or gym floor. And and the guy comes in from a well known bank, shall we say? and goodness me he was just gray from top to toe? No, he was just just the picture of greatness. You reminded me of Mr. Bean only not funny.
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And and this talk was just dire he just lectured these kids for about two hours about dividends and bonds and and saving for your own funeral was
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and and these poor little shiny kids were sat there practically with tears in their eyes after two hours, you know, and then they all got off pen and the furry little gunk to take as a souvenir and and that and that was the basis of their money talk. And
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I I just planted a seed in their house. Firstly, how awful it was. But secondly, Surely there's a better way to teach particularly younger kids about money.
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So on my drive home, I had sort of an hour or so stuck on the M six going north. And I thought, you know, I wonder if there's a way to kind of get involved a bit of creativity get some right brain thinking and imagination going for these kids. And the sort of seed of a of a story. Kind of like a modern day jack in the beanstalk type thing was was planted.
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So I went home and I just kind of scribble something down. And but not much more of it.
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Went back to that school the next day. And they were sort of joking in the staff rooms. What do you think of that money day? And I was trying to be a little bit diplomatic, because they, they may have enjoyed it. I don't know what they were used to. But I kind of broke down I thought well, that was that was pretty dire. And, and they said, Well, you know, how would you go about it? What would you do differently? I said, Well, funny, you should mention that. Here's one I prepared earlier.
Unknown Speaker 9:23
So I kind of told him about this story. And I thought it was great. So I did an impromptu assembly with these kids. You know, they think oh, that they must have been a bit doubtful thinking, oh, gosh, another money talk. But I read the story, and then it seemed to get a lot better. So so that was the genesis of it.
Unknown Speaker 9:43
And then from that, I looked into publishing as a book. I spoke to numerous publishers and agents and went down that route. But in the end I sort of self published just because I wanted to get them out there and see what see what works.
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happen so,
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so to date, there are five stories and the five story books and also some learning activities for schools and a teacher pack as well, that that was helpful to to bridge the gap between where the books were and actually getting something that teachers could could tangibly use in the classroom as well. How easy is it been to obscene? You know, have those conversations with the schools? And how have they, you know, embraced the financial fairytales? Because I know you are working with schools on Yes.
Unknown Speaker 10:34
Yeah. The funny thing with with the financial education curriculum, I think it was 2014. around about that time, so there was a big push to get get financial education on the curriculum in particularly in secondary schools, but also spilling over into primary. And Martin Lewis, you know, the moneysaving guy on TV, and so on. He was spearheading a campaign and there was online petitions that you could sign eventually evolved into a parliamentary group that would investigate this. And I was fortunate enough to be invited to contribute to that, to give evidence to it. And, you know, eventually, we came up with a policy and, you know, financial education was going to be mandatory in schools from 2014. So there were high fives all around, everybody thought the deal was done. And it was great. But sadly, since then, not a great deal has really happen. In many cases, you know, in some cases, some schools do a good job. And I think that's down to the the motivation of the teachers, individual teachers, or the head teacher seeing that as a as a priority. But unfortunately, in many other cases, financial education is just
Unknown Speaker 11:54
given lip service to or completely ignored, because it's not, it's supposed to be mandatory, but it's not actually enforced on the curriculum. So it might be hidden in a little bit of the maths curriculum somewhere, you know, working out percentages, or it might be one hour on it within the PSAT, you know, in between Sex, drugs, and rock and roll. So
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it's been disappointing in the way that it was, it was taking up to be honest, in terms of the whole financial education. But within that there are obviously pockets of really good practice. And some schools and some local authorities have been really keen, as I say, particularly Scotland was doing really well with it.
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And where I can, I've tried to, you know, to influence that, you know, with my own work, and how can the parents approach the money topics with their children? Dan?
Unknown Speaker 12:52
Yeah, I mean, it's important, because if you think this is not being done in schools, particularly not universally in schools, then who is going to teach kids about money. And I think parents do have a big role to play.
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And it depends really what age group we're talking about. So if you think about younger ones, so sort of primary age kids from an the five to eight, or say, then they start to become interested in money. And you can get involved with basics like, you know, counting a change in a shop, or giving them increasing responsibility for buying and things. And then all teenagers are interested in in mobile phones and cars and things like that. So you can you can hook it on to something that they're interested in, you know, rather than metron, a 13 year old about, you know, ways to buy a house, which they might not be relevant to them for years and years. If you can find something that they're interested in and relevant to them begin to, to build up their their interest and feed that enthusiasm. I think that's a good way to go. And focusing back on the financial fairytales, Dan, so tell us, how many books have you written and published? And what are some of the core lessons within those? Yeah, so there's five storybooks at the moment and,
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and the activity book. And the way I approached some of them was to think about well, what what theme do I want to teach here? What message do I want to get across? So So one of them for example, it's called the last the last gold coin and that was about compound interest, believe it or not, there can be many storybooks written around compound interest. And the idea is that you've got
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a wicked witch who steals all the money from the castle and they leave behind one one gold coin that sort of falls out in the in the in the robbery, but because the the prince is good and kind and looks after people and so on, that gold coin magically doubles. So you know, one becomes two becomes four becomes
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date and so on. And eventually, it grows. So big bursts out of the castle vault where it's held. And the idea is that then kids can kind of understand the fact that money can grow over time. And if you if you save it, or invest it and do good things with it, then then money can grow. So that was a sort of concept there. Another one
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was the the troll bridge. And I had an idea there, I was on holiday actually in France. And there was this little kind of as a sort of a medieval type bridge. But it didn't really go anywhere, it must have been washed away, or the roads were redirected that just sort of sat on its own in this region, it, it fascinated me. And it planted the seed for a story of this is about taxation, again, not
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an obvious topic for children's book. But this is a story where you've got a valley with one road in an eye, and it goes over a bridge, and there's a troll who lives under the bridge. And the troll jumps out and stops everyone who's going backwards and forwards and takes attacks from them. And you know, and it's just accepted. And that's, that's how it is. So you have to pay the troll tax. And then one day a little boy kind of starts questioning. So why should we pay the troll as you do for us? What What, what does he do with the money? And again, that the idea is to stimulate conversations about what why do we pay taxes?
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What you know, what's the purpose of that what the government's do with our money, and different systems of that as well. So
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those are some of the themes. But But I try to teach
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positive, empowering messages as well as the practicalities. So as well as you know, to and to make for it, it's tied up with perhaps self reliance, entrepreneurship, a positive feeling about money. Going back to that idea that our habits and beliefs are often formed in those early years. So if people are growing up with thinking, well, not I can't afford it, it might be you know, how can I afford it? What can I do to generate the money, then I think they're going to be in a better place when they reach adulthood than they would be with disempowering beliefs. So Dan, I know your books are popular, not just in the UK, but also the USA and have won some awards as well. Oh, yeah, that's very kind of intervention. Yeah. And I,
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the currently, they're in about 15, or 16 different countries. And it's absolutely wonderful. If I get a message from somebody, I've had messages from Fiji Vietnam, obviously, the States. The first ever book I sought overseas was a judge at The Hague, or places, like a high court judge. And we were really nice note, which is amazing. And yeah, fortunate to be picked up for for a few awards in the States, and I was invited to go out to San Diego. Congratulations. And, and you now we're also looking at teenagers. So tell me more about your money map project, Dan? Oh, yeah, I'm super excited about this. So um, so So we know that financial financial education is important for kids, you know that that's a given, you know, 99 people out of 100 would say that.
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But what currently do kids know about money? You know, if everyone was to take a test today, what would the percentage score be? You know, is it gonna be 10%? Is it gonna be 90%, you know, or somewhere in between, we just don't know. So what I wanted to do was a big money quiz across the UK. So on a particular date, kids all over the country will get a login either on a computer or on their phone. And they could take money quiz, just as a short, fun quiz. And hopefully, we could gamify it so that they could, you know, get badges and share them so on. And then from that data, we could then take a map of the whole of the UK and look at what the scores are, you know, what were the areas of strength and weakness, and then break that down further, perhaps by gender, by age by location tied to perhaps postcode or areas of deprivation. And maybe English is a second language. Because if the results came back, saying that kids who spoke English as a second language, were 20% or 50%, lower than your English speaking native kids,
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that that would implicate that indicate that there might be a need then for, you know, multilingual resources around financial education, or is, is there a real strong correlation between areas of deprivation in parts of the country, and a low financial education, in which case, that sort of society, that cycle of poverty is going to perpetuate because the kids aren't learning what they need to know to break out of that
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That financial situation. So that was that was the, the kind of big vision. And then once once the kids are using the the money map, we could then provide some financial education. And, again, that they would enjoy, that will be gamified. In some way, they'd be, they'd be learning key money skills, and then we could test again to another quiz at the end of the program. And, and therefore prove the the, the before and after effect, you know, and you could actually prove that the average score has come from x to y. And, you know, these people have increased by this and I, and, you know, we've raised the bar, move the needle, if you will, of financial knowledge and skills and let young people in the UK, you know, by a proven amount, because I think that that's what's been lacking, and not only as a universal approach, but also proof of its effectiveness. Because like the guy I said, you know, Mr. B, new turns up to do his money talk that that might happen in schools all over the country.
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But what's, what's the legacy of that? You know, how do we know what they've learned? How do we know what they've benefited from? How are we going to know that is not going to go straight out of their minds as soon as they leave that back classroom? So I was really keen on making something that's going to prove the effectiveness? And how, where do you see the role of kind of the entrepreneurs in this movement, Dan, because it seems like you know, what we're talking about here is really a shift within, you know, young, young adults and children hear from that typical employee mindset of, you know, work hard, get good grades, you know, and work your way up the ladder, and now to, you know, an entrepreneurial mindset, because jobs that, you know, a popular today just didn't exist five years ago, in many cases, and the speed of technology as well is advancing and, and children. Now, obviously, as you mentioned earlier, kind of obsessed with mobile phones, younger and younger ages. So, you know, how is, as I said, the, the role of the entrepreneur, you know, placed within this movement, you think, no, but most definitely, I think, you know, I use my dad as an example, quite often, he left school at 15, went to work for a big company, stayed there, all his life,
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took early retirement, got a pension happily ever after. And, and that was, that was his model of the world. But that that's like, ancient history. Now, you know, young people today, as you say that, you know, jobs that are existing now probably won't exist in five years ago, and jobs that the kids are in school, now we'll be doing in five years, we probably don't even know about, you know, they might be AI technicians, or, you know,
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kind of moon landing specialists who knows what they're gonna be doing so, so, you know, we don't know that. So I think, as part of the financial education, having entrepreneurial mindset, just be able to,
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perhaps, combine, having a job, but also looking at other opportunities, whether it's, you know, to create wealth through business, or through investments or just being open to other possibilities, or being able to shift properly throughout their careers, they'll go through states of employment, self employment, you know, portfolio type working. So, you know, I think it's our duty as educators to to prepare young people for the workplace that they will find themselves in, but to have that kind of growth mindset and that flexibility to be able to adapt and thrive, you know, and it's not just in competition, in inverted commas with people in the UK, because, you know, it's we're going to be competing on a global scale, the internet has leveled the playing field. So, you know, kids in Mumbai or in the Philippines or wherever, who are, you know, really swatting up on their education and developing really marketable skills, there's a danger that there aren't kids going to be left behind. If we just stick to a very traditional
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kind of education system that there's going to push people into jobs that probably won't exist anymore.
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Then, if someone wants to check out the financial fairy tales, where's the best place for them to go? Yeah, the great, so is the financial fairy tales.com is the website there. That will be fantastic. And if anyone is interested in the money map project that's in early development, but I'd love to, to hear for some some potential partners or people are interested. And you can find out more about that on fearless finance.org. Excellent. Dan, thanks so much for sharing with us today doing great things. And I know there's obviously many more ideas and stories in the pipeline. So we look forward to seeing those in the future. Thank you Krista, to talk to you
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They are very warm. Welcome to our talk today. I everyone, thanks for having me. nicely, Christian. So Neil, you have just very recently joined our seven steps wealth program. And Kevin and myself were really, really keen to get you on board, because you reached out to us actually, I think perhaps after listening to some podcast episodes, and we really want to hear your story, Neal as to, you know, why you reached out and and now how we've come to collaborate and begin working together. Okay, yeah. So my journey started back at the start of lockdown really had a lot more time on my hands. I'm a teacher. And obviously, we're still going into school to help
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on a couple of days a week. But the main thing was thinking about kind of my family's financial future, the last recession hit, kind of 2008. And teaching salaries never really recovered from that. So I was looking like things are all right at the moment. But I wanted to kind of kind of protect the family and over the next kind of 1015 years, really, and give ourselves more financial freedom. So I did what everyone does, doesn't read, Rich Dad, Poor Dad, and then did some searching on the internet and came across Kevin's book said Seven Pillars of wealth. And that really struck home actually, that was a really, really great kind of guide, and kind of started to give me a bit of a bit of a plan of what I could do, potentially, and then kind of created my business from there, and then started looking at looking at our family's financial situation. Great. And it's only been a couple of weeks. But how are you finding program so far, I'm absolutely loving it, I'm really enjoying it, finding a lot of value from it, like in the last couple of weeks on the wealth dynamics test and found that really useful. And my wife's done it. And that's really interesting as well, and, and just,
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you can, you can start to see a pathway to achieving financial independence. At the start, it seemed a bit pretty far off. And then when Kevin was talking, I think within yourself and talking about five to seven years, I think, really, and I'll give myself a challenge for 11 years to do it. But like, the more I've got into the course, the more you can see that being a realistic goal. Yeah. Now, of course, as well as obviously learning those steps yourself, Neil, you're hugely passionate about sharing this wisdom and knowledge with the younger generation. And as you mentioned, your teacher, so you're on the ground every day surrounded by teenagers, and no better place to see you know, where the gaps are currently in the education system, and what opportunities you feel there are to help bring entrepreneurship and more financial literacy to the young generation. So tell us about some of those ideas you've had. Absolutely. So I'm a director of sport health and Psh g pesa. g stands for personal social health, Economic Education, as a secondary school in Norfolk, and for me, my passion in life is about inspiring people and helping people achieve their life goals. And to me that schools do a lot of amazing work. But one thing that clearly, clearly a weakness in the system is kind of financial aptitude and coaching and that a lot of what I see is all around earned income, very little about kind of generating, generating cash from assets. And that's something that I want to change. So I've created a an online teaching course, for teachers to educate their young people around kind of asset asset generation. And you send us a copy of this, Neil, we had looked at it and, you know, we jumped on the call, and we discussed it, and we said, Look, we really like what you're doing here. And we feel that, you know, there's two angles really obviously, one, you can go to the teachers and obviously try and filter down to the students that way. But another way perhaps is looking at the parents of these peoples and those parents especially that already kind of switched on to the idea of this. And of course, the wealth builders community is the perfect community there. So So we're now co creating and going to develop that course together. And that will be ready obviously, early next year. So very much excited. Look forward to that. Neil.
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Got a lot of ideas lined up. Exactly you everyday I think there's a new idea and and more of that to be revealed in due course. And so I'm interested now because we talk about entrepreneurship of as adults, right. And but I can imagine the younger generation now who are on their mobile phones who are absolutely plugged into all of the different social media profiles and accounts that are out there. They're seeing role models, who are actually entrepreneurs, but perhaps the term entrepreneurship is not one that's familiar with the teenagers. Yeah, that would be very fair. I think. Like I say schools do a lot of amazing work in law. This isn't to bash teachers at all, because I think there's some been some amazing work done particularly this year, really difficult circumstances, but very little of that is taught in schools and kids are seeing
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That outside. And it's often kind of the younger generation that I've kind of switched on to kind of what can be achieved through social networks and developing your follow in and things like that, and how to monetize that. And obviously, very little of that is taught in schools at the moment, and kind of my, my drive is to really gonna change that and influence that. So how do you think, or I should say, what do you think is important, Neal, to I guess, get the children excited about learning these skills, because they can obviously see a desired result that they want be that you know, to have some kind of fame, or obviously, you know, to allow them to accelerate and get the things they want in life, and for some, perhaps to, you know, be able to talk about something they're passionate about, or a cause. And whereas traditional, you know, lessons perhaps are, you know, not so fundamentally exciting for them. So there's no desired end result. So how can you see, you know, this being brought to their attention, where they see the importance of learning these things? Well, I think role models are very important in terms of encouraging them and inspiring them. But I also think, a school level kind of 1516 year olds, it's about kind of opening their eyes to what can be achieved, and about how to lay the foundation. So I don't think schools role is to necessarily teach them all of these skills, but it's certainly to open up their eyes to what can be achieved and developing multiple streams of income and different ways that you can go about doing that, just just to kind of protect them. Because I see in the next 10 years, there's gonna be a lot a lot of opportunities for for kids. But there's also going to be a lot of kind of downsides as well, potentially, with with the economy. So there's going to be a real case of winners and losers. And I'm kind of worried about kind of a generation of kids getting left behind, really. So that's what's driving me to kind of really help help young people and kind of get them inspired getting doing and taking part in small tasks to start off with, and giving them a base from what from which to start from. And where do you see the role of the parent? How can parents help with this? Now, I think the role of the parent is crucial, really, I think, in this country, we have a culture of not really talking about money,
Unknown Speaker 32:19
particularly kind of within families and stuff. And that that can be a real hindrance to to kids without those kinds of parents. Like my family, we didn't really talk about money at all. It's only since I've started this business, that I'm having all these conversations with my mom and dad. And I was like, when you teach me that, like you teach? And? And, yeah, so a lot of people that go into business or parents that were in the room business already. And it's kind of if you know it, you know, if you don't know it, you kind of think right, the right path is go to university, get a job
Unknown Speaker 32:50
throughout my life and then get a pension. And I think that narrative is gone now.
Unknown Speaker 32:55
Yeah. And I think it's important that we acknowledge what does already exist within the the educational system and the Prince's Trust is one organization that is teaching entrepreneurship currently. Yeah, absolutely. They've got a young enterprise challenge. And that's really good. They've got the kind of computer game version that kind of teaches it's about six hours long. And it talks about kind of how to create a shop and kind of stock levels and things like that, and how to advertise is, I wouldn't say it's limited. That is a good starting point. But I think there's so much more that schools could do. Yeah, Neil, we're we're very excited about working with you and seeing what's to come early in 2021. And thank you for sharing everything with us today. I'm off talk. Thanks so much for your time, most of everyone, and I look forward to speaking to you again in the future. Geez. So we heard from Dan first up there, Kevin and sit down being a teacher he told us that story of the the rather gray banker coming in and almost lecturing the kids for two hours. And I could kind of picture that scene right now. I remember sitting cross legged in the assemblies and I don't think that would have been one of my favorite ones either. But um, you know, he identified a problem, like all good entrepreneurs do, and took action to do something about that. And that led, of course, to writing the financial fairy tale series, you can tell that Dan got a bit of fire in his belly, didn't he?
Unknown Speaker 34:21
I was when I listened to the story, Chris, I found myself sort of kind of smirking, almost embarrassed in a way that the banking industry still thinks that you, you give kids a little gift and somehow you'll find a relationship with them for life. And it's just an interesting way to try and do that without any real thought about whether the kids are going to enjoy it or not. And it felt a bit like a gray and dreary Spitting Image puppet in my mind, you know, just completely you can almost imagine the whole thing was shrouded in gray and the kids were squirming in the and the teachers were screaming
Unknown Speaker 35:00
And the whole thing was just a nightmare. And I think he wanted to change that. And I applaud him for it, because anybody who just see something, and they can just react and they could be negative about it. But it's chosen to be positive, and that positivity is born out of good thoughts, you know, so you think about it in reality,
Unknown Speaker 35:23
kids, creativity and money go well together. And, and I think part of the curriculum isn't recognizing that creativity needs to come from value, you know, adding value in being an entrepreneur just doesn't seem to be on that. So I just love anything that talks about money in school, anything that brings a little bit of knowledge, because, you know, kids are going to be grown ups before you know it. And they're gonna have to make decisions on their own. They're realizing very quickly, that there are so many decisions to make around finance, which hits them like a boxing glove, you know, all of a sudden, bang, student loan, bang, overdraft bang, you know, Omen, so many things that will catch them out, unless somebody starts to talk to him about that. So it's good that he's bringing in the concept of money at an early age. And I think I applaud him for that. And, you know, I've read one or two of those, the, you mentioned one or two. And I think they definitely aimed at the right, level four for the youngsters, and nothing would encourage anybody who's got young kids, just to have a look and see if they would resonate with you. Yeah, I love the way he's, he's wrapped up some of those core lessons in the books, you know, about compound interest. And the troll tax actually reminds me one of your quotes, Kevin, you know, you can't save your way to wealth. And, and one of the early workshops that we did a few years back together, we played a little game, if you remember, you know, and there's two groups and you know, one group, try and save your way, and see how much you can you can make and the other to think entrepreneurially and see the difference there. And it's these fun little things that certainly can be introduced at an early age and, and those things will stick in the memory of children, I'm sure. Yeah, exactly. And I think it's going to be interesting, because
Unknown Speaker 37:21
our second guest, we know, we're talking also about creating a game on where you know, so that it can engage kids as well to, to enjoy the process, and to absorb the lessons. And I think that's very laudable as well, from Neil, who again, shares a very similar passion doesn't he comes from a
Unknown Speaker 37:44
very clear decision that he wants to, to bring financial literacy, right into the heart of the curriculum and wants to be part of that process. Yeah, and asked me I love say about the importance of role models, because many children now I've seen spending so much time online and on their phones, and they're seeing these, you know, similar age, people that are making lots of money and having success. And obviously, that's not necessarily, you know, always good role models. But it's interesting, because that in itself is obviously a new kind of entrepreneurship, very different, you know, the entrepreneurship of 510 20 years ago. And so there's, there's a big shift. And obviously, Neil, being in the classroom every day, with a great relationship with the children is just in such a good place to, I guess, spot, the best way of actually transferring this information to them. Yeah, it's an interesting one. I mean, we've seen
Unknown Speaker 38:43
I suppose recently, haven't we seen the high profile case of Mr. rashford, from footballer Manchester United, you know, doing something very seriously about being a role model for school meals, and so on. And I applaud him for that. And, you know, some of those high profile people, you know, could certainly do more, to try and help that. And I think what Neil's trying to do is almost bring a combination of sports, and health and wealth, really. And I think that's a good combination. That would work because he's passionate about both so. So I applaud both Daniel and Neil for their contribution. And I think from my side, certainly, I would say, from a macro perspective, you know, the next generation is going to be poorer than our generation. It's going to be the first generation poor and the one before it, I guess, and I'll talk about that in, in the book, Chris, that I wrote a while ago. So that's part of the reason why literacy, education and being a good parent as a role model, because the kids will take their lead from you. So we just love to see our parents certainly well build a parents getting their children involved. When
Unknown Speaker 40:00
Whether it's something as simple as helping create the logo for the family wealth business, which we've seen some brilliant examples of that, haven't we, Chris, and getting kids involved, when the on the wealth chart is the wealth thermometer grows as people's recurring income starts to rise by 100 by 200, by 300. And we've got pictures of some of the families with their kids kind of taking a red pen and coloring the thermometer, as mums and dads are earning more money, which gives more security for the family. And of course, there are so many things that you can do to engage children of all ages, in spotting things, being aware of things.
Unknown Speaker 40:44
Almost watching if they're watching TV, you know, to, to bring things to the attention of the family as well. And you can, you can also talk to them about spotting,
Unknown Speaker 40:56
adverts around debt adverts around gambling and all those sorts of things, and have proper conversations. And we tend to do that we've done that a long time in our family. We have a mealtimes when we talk about these things, and a no phone zone, as we call it. So you can't bring your phone to the meal table. Obviously, my kids are grown and gone there. But we still have a no phone zone now. And we still talk about these things. It's interesting, Chris, when you talk about role models, and also language being absorbed,
Unknown Speaker 41:27
I can recall and it makes me laugh now that you'll know those people who follow the podcast for a while Chris will know that the catalyst for me was the early death of my dad 46. And
Unknown Speaker 41:40
he left a kind of trail of devastation financially behind him. And he didn't really want to do that it just didn't get around to doing the right things. So not a great role model in that regard. But it's funny, I was talking to a mother and I provide her with some income as part of her retirement. And she's 18 years of age now. And I was talking to her recently about sending us some money. And in the Jordy language, which is difficult to translate. But she said to me, can I put it in the sauce covered. She was even using the language of of the small self administered scheme, she had no clue what it meant. But she'd heard it from me, and she'd heard it from my brother. And she'd heard it sort of been spoken about in the family, and was jokingly kind of being part of it. And you know, kids will absorb the language as well as grandparents. So it's just interesting to be using language and explaining that language as well to be inclusive rather than exclusive and, and feel like, you know, it's a taboo subject but should certainly not be. Yeah, Kevin, as your mom left a review.
Unknown Speaker 42:51
My, my mom couldn't go online if you if you let her there's no possibility of that at all. But thankfully, we have had a couple of new reviews, Kevin. So before we before we wrap up today, let me squeeze these in. Because I really do appreciate, of course, everyone leaving the reviews. And we're really actually getting quite close to having 100 reviews on trustpilot. Kevin, so if we could push hard and ask all our listeners for a little Christmas present. That would be amazing if we could hit that target by Christmas. But let me read down. Mr. Scott said great content, knowledge sharing. There's a lot of great content and sharing of invaluable knowledge on the podcast as well as tips and valuable information. When I heard about it initially, I was unsure as to whether this would be something I'd enjoy. But I was pleasantly surprised and have really enjoyed listening to wealth builders podcast highly recommend this to anyone. So thank you, Mr. Scott.
Unknown Speaker 43:44
And Jeff. So Jeff is one of our founding members. And Jeff has said for 10 years, my wife and I have been progressing slowly with building our wealth and looking at how we could become financially independent and be able to look forward to a financially secure retirement. Finding wealth builders a couple of years ago has dramatically transformed our thinking made us focus made us plan made us target results. And given us the push we needed. The results have been or will be life changing for us. Wealth builders are essentially educators and mentors and they do this exceptionally well with within all aspects of wealth. And actually goes on to say thanks to Paul Brooks, who's you know, been especially helpful in setting up their SAS strategy and and to their coach their wealth coach. Carol. So yeah, they've you know, they've embraced everything that we that we teach. And both Jeff and Stephanie I know have you know, have made some great results and only greater results to come I'm sure. Well, it's interesting, isn't it when you hear a great review like that, and you can see already that there's a community there there's an ecosystem there. And you know, talk about porn, talk back cowl talked about you talked about me talked about the
Unknown Speaker 45:00
community. And this is essentially, you know, an important thing when you think about children, because we're all part of a community, which is really designed to help the kids, whether it's the teachers and hats off to Neil and for Dan for trying to influence that. You as a parent, and trying to deliberately and conscientiously be inclusive of your kids. And I think for us as well, Chris, we want to bring more interesting ways for that knowledge share, to be transferred to kids, including materials that we will create. And you heard us mention, some co-created work with Neil, who approached us and said, I think you could really help us and we agreed. And that's interesting, too, so that if you've got an idea, around helping children about helping teenagers around helping grownups to, you know, create, build and protect their wealth, then we'd be delighted to hear from you. And we'd be delighted to potentially collaborate with you. So that's a JV which is pillar number seven, which is collaborating in joint ventures with other people. And sometimes the best way to build your wealth is to collaborate with people who already got a flow, and then you can get into their flow and enhance that. So good for them. Good for Neil. And hopefully, you'll see more of our materials coming soon. And we'll talk about that in the next episode. Indeed. Thanks, Dan. And thanks, Neil, for your contributions on this week's episode. Thank you all for listening. And thank you, Kevin. We'll catch up next week. Until then, Chris sia.
Unknown Speaker 46:39
We hope you enjoy today's episode. Don't forget that we are constantly updating our resources inside the wealth builders membership site to help you create, build and protect your wealth. Head over to wealth builders.co.uk slash membership right now for free access. That's wealth builders.co.uk slash membership