Did you know that for the first time ever, the cost of filling up a tank of petrol for the average car is over £100? There is so much worry and uncertainty around the market at the minute, but we must always look at both the micro and the macro picture. Most people end up playing the wealth hokey-cokey; jumping into things when times look good due to FOMO and jumping straight out of things when times look tough, due to fear. Building wealth is about having a long term plan, not about reacting to market conditions that will always fluctuate. Tune in to hear Kevin and Christian talks about the dangers of playing the wealth hokey-cokey and how you can avoid it.
Did you know that for the first time ever, the cost of filling up a tank of petrol for the average car is over £100?
There is so much worry and uncertainty around the market at the minute, but we must always look at both the micro and the macro picture. Most people end up playing the wealth hokey-cokey; jumping into things when times look good due to FOMO and jumping straight out of things when times look tough, due to fear. Building wealth is about having a long term plan, not about reacting to market conditions that will always fluctuate.
Tune in to hear Kevin and Christian talks about the dangers of playing the wealth hokey-cokey and how you can avoid it.
Resources Mentioned In This Episode:
>> WealthBuilder Experience – Wine & Tapas
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Unknown Speaker 0:01
The purpose of wealth talk is to educate, inform, and hopefully entertain you on the subject of building your wealth. Wealth builders recommends you should always take independent financial tax or legal advice before making any decisions around your finances.
Christian Rodwell 0:19
Welcome to Episode 157 of wealth talk. My name is Christian Rodwell, the membership director for wealth builders. And I'm joined today by our founder, Mr. Kevin Whelan. Hello, Kevin.
Unknown Speaker 0:29
Hello, Cruz. Good to be with you again, what troubled times we're living in right now, sir.
Christian Rodwell 0:33
Indeed. Well, we just had news today, when we're recording that for the first time ever, the cost of filling up a tank for the average car is over 100 pounds now of petrol for petrol. So, yeah, definitely, we're seeing this rise across multiple areas.
Unknown Speaker 0:50
This, this is obviously not worrying for me because I have an electric vehicle, but the price of electricity is going to go up. So I'm not going to stay smug for too long. However, wow. I mean, it's just the craziness that's going on right now. We're seeing there'll be pressure on bank base rates. There'll be, but we know, the inflationary pressures in there, the government have just put the triple lock back in on pensions. So you know, there are small bits of good news out there, but fundamentally the sort of macro picture and you know, Chris, I'm gonna economist by training. And there's two types of economics, macro and micro, macro, big picture. Micro is how does it affect you? And you need to know both. So the macro picture will always have some impact. But I think most people don't really think through what is the macro picture? What's the micro picture? How do I work out what to do? So consequently, most people just get it plain wrong. And do everything the opposite of what they should do? And is sometimes you know, it's quite crazy. And a lot of people right now, as I've been starting to meet people, now, our requests are just great to see that we're getting out. And I think we're having some wealth builder meetings coming up, as well soon where in order to put something nice back into the world where there's just troubled times out there. We're doing wealth builder experiencing, and wealth builder experience networking, aren't we, so we're getting people together, who want to mingle with us and learn what to do in such times, but also to get a bit of an experience of doing something that's interesting. That's, you know, fascinating, that's giving you something you could do at the same time as networking. So perhaps you could tell us about our first one, Chris? Yeah,
Christian Rodwell 2:48
absolutely. So it's actually one of our Academy members, Joanna weevil, who is an experience kind of events host, and certainly Spain, Portugal, those European countries that she's very familiar with, and she's bringing the taste of Portugal, all the way to North London for a wealth builders experience. And that's on the 30th of June. So it's a small gathering for, you know, all of our sort of friends and family listeners of the podcast, our own SAS and Academy members. But yes, invite is for anyone who would like to come and join us and say, Hello face to face clinker glass. We're actually be tasting four different Portuguese wines on the evening, being taught through all of those wines, and also accompanied by some nice foods. Portuguese style. So yeah, do head over to the Facebook group, wealth builders Facebook group, we've got all the details in there. If you're not already a member, definitely jump in there and book your ticket.
Unknown Speaker 3:42
And we're going to be doing lots of things aren't we that we're looking forward to, we'll definitely do something on the Thames. In summer, we'll definitely do some golf, we'll definitely do anything that really is a combination of fun, and getting together. So if you host something already, if you're doing something already, that you know you're enjoying, but you think a group of people maybe sort of somewhere between 40 and 50 people could come along. We'd love to hear from you. So maybe you could be a wealth builder host and listening to the equivalent of Tampa So isn't it Portuguesa now, I love tappers. I've never had Portuguese we're looking forward to that Chris
Christian Rodwell 4:24
snow should be good indeed. Now, we speak to people every day Kevin don't me on on the phone. And you know, we get asked you know our thoughts on things and I know you don't often give opinions do Kevin but today are you changing your mind? Are you going to kind of think the
Unknown Speaker 4:41
market as the you know us going to use the word market in the moment is so incredibly challenging, that I might just do something that I don't do normally. Now it won't build as we we speak in principles. And we know that if you follow the principles of wealth building, then that wealth is predictable. We know that. But you know where we are right now? I think people are doubting themselves, right? So I'm getting asked all the time, what's your opinion on this or that market? And as you know, I don't like to give opinions because that's almost like it's from me. Whereas I prefer principles because principles work opinions. You could you could have a different opinion to me. But because you've asked me nicely, Chris, what's my rule for making and giving opinions?
Christian Rodwell 5:38
Sure. Oh, of course, well, if there's for those that aren't seeing the video here, there's a glass of red that just came into shot.
Unknown Speaker 5:49
I only give opinions. If somebody recognises, now I'm giving an opinion. Because I'm holding a glass of something that I like that you have bought for me, then the trade off is you give me a glass of something, and I'll give you my opinion on something. And that's fair, because then it's absolutely an opinion has nothing to do. Doesn't have to be with principles, but what I'm doing what I'm thinking, so I don't think this is a bottle you bought me, Chris. But I know you bought me and I'm just just for the record, I will assume it's you. So you're going to ask me my opinion. Thank you, Chris. Is enjoy only small one, because it is
Christian Rodwell 6:31
it's after 6pm that we're recording this. It's okay. You
Unknown Speaker 6:35
go ready for the opinion and all get ready for a quick schlep.
Christian Rodwell 6:38
All right. Well, Kevin, you know, we are in troubled times at the moment and, you know, the stock markets are going up and down and everything's increasing. You know, what are your thoughts here? What, what's your opinion on, on what we should be doing?
Unknown Speaker 6:52
Okay. So let me say, first of all, Chris, that the best way to get the macro picture on what's going on in the market, is to understand that there are always three markets. So there's no such thing is an amorphous market, there isn't a homogenous thing. That is the market. There's three markets, not free. But three, the number three, one, the retail market, to the wholesale market. Three, you create the market. Now, I had a conversation with somebody just today, in fact, and it made me think about this. And he was asking my opinion on the property market, right? So let's do the property market. And I said, What do you mean about the property market? He said, Well, me and my wife have been looking at property. I said, How long have you been looking? Two years? Well, you're not doing then you're looking. So looking at markets is spectating. And when you're spectating, you're looking and you're hoping that something's going to be right for you. That somehow miraculously something will be right and is never right. Because the retail market is full of people being buffeted by wind that's blowing on them, and they don't really know what to do about it. And in the market, as we speak at the moment, the property market is full of people. The pricing is a bit like everything else at the moment is gone through the roof in the general, you know, you're looking at the the what people will call the property market. So if you're trying to buy property, whether you're buying it to live in, or if you're buying it for an investment, it's just crazy times and there are the numbers don't really work for many people, particularly in traditional strategies I buy to let because the the numbers just not stacking up. And people are putting in offers to buy a property and having to go way, way way over asking just to secure it. And when you do that, and you look back at the numbers, and you come back to the numbers, it doesn't work and and I've seen people buy property and I was talking recently on a webinar question. And somebody said to me, you know, I bought a property, and I made no money when I sold it. And the reason that happened is because they didn't do the numbers. What they did was they got into this idea of I need to buy one. So I'm going to buy one, and they bought it in the retail market. So the retail retail market is a marketplace, which is you're not able to find extraordinary value yourself. You're just doing what everybody else is doing. Also market is when you're getting off market things. You're looking at things to create a niche So you're finding a gap in the market, if you see what I mean, you're finding something unique in the market that you can do, which normally means it's not retail, you're not just taking yourself going into that market, with the level of knowledge you've got, and trying to make that work. You're having to spend some time in education, you're having to get some support. You need connections to see what other people are doing, which is what we teach in wealth builders, the wheel of wealth, education, support connection being the first three. And once you're doing that you're beginning to discern, right, and this this idea of discerning is the art of wealth building. That thing, Kiyosaki said in one of his books way back now, your level of wealth is linked crucially, to your ability to make distinctions. And nothing that's true. And I think where wealth builders has become really outstanding in its niche, Chris, is because increasingly, because we're holistic, we're meeting so many people experts in their field, we're able to make distinctions for our clients and say, Well, do you know somebody's doing this? Do you know somebody's finding that, do you know, there's a way to do that to create value from this or that in a way that once you can learn the niche, you can create a pathway that the numbers work for you? And a simple example might be I was talking to one of my potential mentee clients the other day, and they've got a lot of money, right? They sold something, they've got a lot of money. And I said, Well, what you've got is a lot of money, with no knowledge,
Unknown Speaker 11:48
which is very dangerous. Of course. We'll come on to the Hokey cokey in a moment, I'm going to talk about the wealth hokey cokey, not a good thing. Very dangerous thing. But anyway, the point is about when you got a lot of money, and no knowledge is very dangerous. So if you can get the knowledge and the look the knowledge, what what should knowledge should I get, it's so broad, it's so wide. It's so vast. So well just think about where your leverages, you've got great financial leverage, and you've got time, you just don't have a strong intellectual set of knowledge yet in different things. So here's one idea. And I want you to go check this out. Find as many properties just find them where you can't get a mortgage on it. And what do you mean, because if you've got cash, you can buy in cash, everybody else is gonna be buying with a mortgage. So if you can buy something with no mortgage, you can secure it because then the person who's selling it knows there's 1000s of buyers, but there's so few people who've got cash, you could learn to differentiate yourself is a cash buyer. So go find some. And I used an example of somebody who had a niche, and made me laugh every time I've heard this woman say it. And she says if it stinks of we think of me. And that's so classically niche, because it's saying, if it's a property that's just terrible, it needs gutting, it needs completely fumigating it needs it needs it needs, then you're differentiating yourself from the 1000s and 1000s of people who are just casually spectating in the market. And that's the skill. So So learn to differentiate, make distinction, see what other people are doing, and see if you can work with gaps in the market. And that's what the wholesale market, the the, the making market, the market makers are people who are creating things and that's best, probably less so in, in property but it can be done because what you're doing is you're creating value from even space above you, you know, so freehold property goes from the ground up to the top of the basically to the sky so if you can find a building and then you know you've got air rights, basically you could then we've got lots of clients now and we Chris who are you know, creating buildings where they're putting in the the facility you know, instead of just having a straightforward roof putting in a reinforced roof to allow them to go up later on when they want to go down? Well, it's harder to go down actually. Because digging into London which is what most people did in London, you know, all the trying to create space in London, you can't really go up so much but but going down is where a lot of people are going to dig deep into creating space below ground, but airspace and below ground and left and right You know, I've got clients who ride around on their cycles in the territory in which they are working, Chris and they're always looking for gaps in the roof space. Where is where is where is the building not matched, where's Where does something look like it's lower or higher than something else. And then there's probably an opportunity in that. So whenever you're looking at a piece of property, look left to the property look right to the property, Look down, look up, and you'll find ways to create an issue in that space. So that's, that's what I'm talking about, Chris, when you going into that, there's clearly been a growth in and people in central London, building downwards. Because it's, it's just a way to expand the space but but that's that's the way you're, you're you know, you're creating space. And if you're doing Commercial to Residential Property, for example, you're creating residential space. So there's, there's definitely more money, more wealth to be made in the creation market, when you're creating a market, then than if you're in the retail market. So it's better to be not in the retail market, learn in the wholesale market, and then finally get to a place where you can create. This is more true. In the stock market, Chris, where we know the vast majority of people who build their wealth and 95%. building their wealth traditionally, on a in a home, they live in their pension, their investments in both the pension investments predominantly invested in the stock market. And the stock market equally is broken down into three, the retail stock market, the wholesale market, and they create a market.
Unknown Speaker 16:47
You don't want to be in the retail market, again, everything retail is you're paying the highest price for the lowest value. That's really what happens there. So when you're in the retail market, and we've been on, we've done many podcasts on this case, and certainly we cover this in debits in the s for stock market fees, you're almost always paying so much more in fees, to institutions, platforms, custodians advisors, that the overall cost of getting access in the market, the stock market is not delivering value. So the net return, you know, because when you're paying lots of fees, the stock market is investing in shares, isn't it anyway, in other companies, and the long term return will be somewhere between six and 7%. Say, from a macro perspective, that's what we expect. The long term Well, if you're paying 2%, in fees, and you're getting six, you're gonna get four, which means a third of your money is going and charges and fees. And that's really bad value for money. So the best thing to do is look at the go into the wholesale, where instead of intermediating, using intermediaries for everything, use an intermediate, use that service or some expert to get some guidance. And then do it yourself. And so you do it through a wholesale, so you can buy into ETFs, you can buy into low cost trackers, you can buy, as you know, go into SAS where you can control the pension for yourself. And we've got lots of clients who've done that. So when you're doing things for yourself, or at least learning what needs to be done, then you can determine exactly what you want to do and exactly what you want to pay for. But the thing that you're doing is you're negotiating often. So instead of just paying what you're paying, can you eliminate that? Can you reduce that? negotiate that? Or if possible, can you turn it into a tax deductible expense, and move it into your business? Which of course we do with pensions, don't we? And we get those for many people set up in their businesses. So it's a tax deductible expense in the business. But anyway, the market makers are those people who build businesses. And then they create shares in their own company. And that's what I prefer to do. I prefer to build businesses because the ROI is infinite. You're not limited to five or 6%. And you're not paying fees for it because you're building and you're creating and then you're scaling and then you're exiting. And I think there's much more value to be done that way. And I suppose if you think about franchising, Chris that's a way to create market, you know, action coach and Brad Sugars who we've collaborated with recently, you know, really, really nice business. The business owner Brad Sugars, created the market. You know, the coaches, you know, in to a certain degree are in the wholesale market, you're getting the benefit of but they're not, you know, they're not an employee, where if you're an employee, you're the retail market because you pay the most taxes and you've got the least value. Because in order to be an employee, somebody else has got to get more value than you're worth in order to be worth paying you and taking the risk and paying you so you see what I'm saying, Chris? If you see yourself and just make that distinction, whatever you're doing, are you retail or wholesale? Are you a market maker? Where are you? You know, most people don't know where they are. And as a result, Chris, they do the hokey cokey and the Hokey cokey is I mean, I'm out, I don't know what I'm doing. I'm shaking my head all about, I don't know what I'm doing. Because I'm not putting the time into educating, supporting, connecting or doing due diligence. I end up going into something too quick.
Unknown Speaker 20:57
Getting out of something too quick, with no reason at all, than one word. And that word, which I've seen more in these circumstances than ever before. In almost in my lifetime, Chris, I've been doing this for 30 years, as you know, in teaching for 15. The concept is fear. Yeah. When people get fearful, they hokey cokey, they FOMO. So they get into something without doing due diligence. What are people getting into more than anything else these days? cryptocurrency? I'm not saying there's anything wrong with what people do. I'm seeing they're getting in without understanding. You know, there are potentially some ways you can create a cash flow from cryptocurrency. I'm not an expert in that. But people are not looking to cash flow. They're saying the markets all over the place. I don't know how to create value, I better do this instead. And they hope that even though they got a lack of knowledge, a lack of, of research and a lack of due diligence, that somehow they're going to get lucky. And they never get lucky. You cannot substitute that for hard work. And the hard work is doing and following the wheel of wealth. And the other way the Hokey cokey when they get out of things, is what happens when people see a stock market crash. To get out.
Christian Rodwell 22:23
By spine, it's a nice point
Unknown Speaker 22:25
to get out. And people get out all the time they crystallise their losses, they get out and they get panicky, and they move to cash. And this is the danger of the stock market. Because there's no real home for generating continual cash flow, like you do in property. Let's say you're in business or an intellectual property or joint ventures where you've got the ability to create more value in restrict a risk to your value. So when you don't see that you, you do the hokey pokey and you turn it around, and it never comes back again, I'm afraid. And I'm seeing that more than ever before. Chris, I don't want to be suspicious about it. Because this is life changing and damaging for many people when they when they do that. So I encourage you to think about where you are. Are you retail, wholesale, or your market maker, please talk to somebody before you do the hokey cokey get somebody to talk to, to help keep you safe and seen when all around you people are losing their heads.
Christian Rodwell 23:27
And I think as we've said many times as well, you know, building wealth is about having a long term plan. So it's not reacting to these, you know, market conditions which will come and go, they will always go up and go down. But if you zoom out have a long term plan, you'll be in a much safer space. I
Unknown Speaker 23:43
couldn't agree with you more Chris. So you know, fear and reaction are both parts of the same emotional response. And that's why I think it's always good to have somebody else has a buddy, a support group. And I encourage people to be in support groups, you know, get us a support group around you being a network around you talk before you take action, you know, even just to get your opinion out and hear somebody else give you their opinion back. But seek opinions from peer groups where you've got a common interest not down the pub, or you know, with with some random person, you're trying to surround yourself with people who've got a common interest in learning, then you should keep yourself a little bit safer.
Christian Rodwell 24:26
Yeah, well good time to remind everyone again about our event on the 30th of June a place to come and meet with like minded people and ourselves but even online if you can't make it to London you know, please join our Facebook group is free as two and a half 1000 wealth builders in there so head to Facebook search for wealth builders all one word you'll find us or just join our free membership, start to consume and watch some of our videos, our free content, our books, you know, lots of free resources inside the free members area just for you to get started. Or if you're looking for something a little bit You know, more supported, then of course, we've got the academy. So, you know, lots of options for people there just to, you know, just to get more involved. Yeah, and
Unknown Speaker 25:07
you there are many, many support groups and many networks. So, you know, go to, excuse me go to events, meet with people watch out for, you know, if it's a random event or an event where people are selling too much watch out for that. But surround yourself with good people, and, and build your network. Because in the end, if you build your networks, you're going to build distinctions because people have got different wealth dynamics from you, they got different opinions to you got different ways of thinking to you. And you will also be if you get into a really strong network, which I believe we are, in terms of integrity, and the community, it always comes out in our reviews, Chris. You know, did you do a review?
Christian Rodwell 25:52
Not yet? No, not yet. We, we've got one lined up ready to go. So
Unknown Speaker 25:59
community otherwise I'm in trouble.
Christian Rodwell 26:02
Now, we always love to read out latest reviews. So yeah, why don't we head over to Trustpilot? Quickly, and we've got one here goes under the name of slate property. I think we might know who that is. And yeah, they've said, Kevin Paul, and the team helped us navigate the process of transferring our existing SAS from another administrator, they helped to make the transfer as seamless as possible. communication and support was great throughout. And we've now been with the team for over a year, the documentation support and overall service our streets ahead of the previous administrator first class,
Unknown Speaker 26:37
and you can just for anybody who's interested, we've got a community of SAS interested people known as the SAS Alliance, Chris, and although you're less than that than I am in, I'm in there. And we do a mastermind on SAS, Paul and I, Paul Brooks, and I do assess a mastermind every month. So again, you know, that's a great community for people where there's a common interest, what's the common interest, SAS, how to make the most of it, how to do good things, how to do safe things. So what you want to do is to try and build your wealth safer, faster, but more enjoyably. And you can only do that in community. So wherever you go to find your community, don't do this on your own, do don't do things on your own. When you're building you will find a community that you resonate with. And it should help you get to where you want to get to.
Christian Rodwell 27:30
Yeah, yeah, good lessons there. So we have a member of our community, actually, on next week's episode, Kevin, so we've got Fabio talking about again, you know, how to generate income in uncertain times with an M of a development strategy there. So yeah, well,
Unknown Speaker 27:48
recently spoken to Fabio and suggested you should do the podcast with him, Chris, because he's got a very interesting take, which is pivoting from what he would normally do. And that's what you need to do when you've got that creativity and you can make distinctions. When the market is uncertain. You can react to that but positively and proactively, you can create opportunity and value as opposed to knee jerk in your way, and finding things to do that aren't solidly thought through. So listen to Fabio next week, and you'll hear what he's doing and it's a fascinating pivot.
Christian Rodwell 28:24
Okay, well, thanks for joining us today. Always great to have you is Thanks, Kevin. We will catch up Same time, same place next week.
Unknown Speaker 28:31
We will indeed I won't be drinking wine next time, Chris. But until then, my friend. Thanks for asking my opinion. See, yeah.
Unknown Speaker 28:40
We hope you enjoy today's episode. Don't forget that we are constantly updating our resources inside the wealth builders membership site to help you create, build and protect your wealth. Head over to wealth builders.co.uk/membership right now for free access. That's wealth builders.co.uk/membership
Transcribed by https://otter.ai