In today's episode we discuss the different levels of wealth are. Make sure to tune in what the 5 different levels are, and the characteristics of each level are. And how these levels can lead to freedom.
Wealth is about an overlay of different freedoms, and when you truly connect with your reason ‘why’ it can become a catalyst which will drive you forwards to achieving the lifestyle that you truly desire. Kevin and Chris also talk through the 5 Levels of Wealth and the characteristics of each level.
In this episode of WealthTalk, Christian and Kevin discuss:
Links and a full transcription of this episode can be found at www.wealthbuilders.co.uk/wealthtalk
Chris Rodwell: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Wealth Talk. My name is Christian Rodwell, I'm the Membership Director for Wealth Builders. As always, joined by my side Mr. Kevin Whelan.
Kevin Whelan: Hello there, nice to talk to you again, Chris
Chris Rodwell: Yes, and to you Kevin. Today, tell us what we're talking about, Kevin.
Kevin Whelan: I think we said in Episode Two we were going to touch on the reason why and knowing your number. I think you've got a little question that we may well need to answer first though, Chris.
Chris Rodwell: Do I?
Kevin Whelan: Yes. What is wealth, I think.
Chris Rodwell: Okay. So I thought, well, how can we have a podcast about wealth talk without really first defining what wealth means. So, Kevin, what's your definition of wealth?
Kevin Whelan: Well, that's a toughie. That's like beauty is in the eye of the beholder, really. I'll give you the best answer I can give, which is wealth is a concept which really involves an overlay of different freedoms. If I describe what the freedoms are, I know this one very important to your heart, Chris, and maybe you can tell a little tale about that one. People have been fighting for freedom for generations. But in wealth context, the thing, the most important freedoms are freedom of time. Because in a time pressed world, every time we talk to people about-
Chris Rodwell: It's the number one response, I don't have enough time.
Kevin Whelan: I don't have enough time. So, getting control of that time. Of course, using a podcast using audible, using things that you can build your education at the same time as you're multi-laying other things is-
Chris Rodwell: Comes down to leverage again.
Kevin Whelan: Is a really good idea. Getting freedom of time and that balance of being able to do what you want to do on your own terms and being in control of your time is really quite an important element of wealth. The second one, of course, is money. Because the importance of being financially independent means the freedom from being dependent on a job or a business that you're having to turn up and working. In the sense that if you are dependent, you're trading your time for money. So, you show up and the money shows up. The definition of money freedom then is you have enough money flowing from things you own, assets you own that you have put in place and with a small amount of management, which can be delegated, then the money's flowing into your life to live the life that you want to lead. And that's freedom of money.
Kevin Whelan: But of course, a very valuable one certainly for me as a connector as you know, Chris, is the freedom of relationships. I have worked in a job, I'm not sure I liked everybody around me. I'm sure if some of our listeners tune into themselves now in their workplace looking around, do they love their boss? Do they like the person that [crosstalk 00:03:10]
Chris Rodwell: -hours a week sat next to these people.
Kevin Whelan: Well, also, look at the time people spend commuting, how much relationship and job meetings that are going on the train journeys to and from London or the big cities with nobody talking everybody on their phone? I'm not sure about that. I don't think I'd want to be part of that commuter rat race at all. The other one is freedom of creativity. What that means is the freedom to be who you are. We touched on it didn't we in the previous episode, wealth dynamics. Knowing who you are, though we didn't go into any great detail. I think maybe we'll cover that in future episodes, right? But being creative, allowing you to get out of yourself who you want to be. We're not all great at everything. In many cases, think of a business owner who is brilliant. Let's say is a brilliant architect, but because he's a one man operator, he's doing the books, he's doing the recruitment, he's doing the advertising, he's renting the shop. There's so many different things that you may not be good at. So you're not free to be who you're best to be, where you deliver real value in the world.
Kevin Whelan: A much wider definition, Chris is freedom of purpose. Again, that's connecting with your higher self, what's your contribution you want to make in life and while it might be slightly esoteric, and maybe you're not thinking about that if you're still struggling month by month. But nonetheless, there is what we found when people really get to the highest level of wealth, they discover for themselves a much higher purpose which is no longer about them. I'll touch on that maybe when we talk about the levels of wealth. That would make sense.
Chris Rodwell: Sure.
Kevin Whelan: But there is another one, Chris and I want to thank you for this one. Because you made this one clear to me as we worked together, and that was a different freedom and what was that one?
Chris Rodwell: That's the freedom of location. I had a real dream to be able to spend time abroad, warmer climates than the UK apparently, and actually achieved that dream back in 2017 when I moved to Portugal, lived in Lisbon for the summer months. It was really kind of a test to see how remote working lifestyle would be, and to be able to transfer my business from London over to Portugal and it was a fantastic experience, wonderful lifestyle.
Chris Rodwell: Ultimately, a learning from that was that for me, connection is so important as well. That even though it's a short flight from the UK, I felt that I really needed to be in the heart of my community serving my members. Actually, I transitioned back to London. But location, really important freedom for me and very privileged to be able to spend that time over in Portugal.
Kevin Whelan: I think you'll be interviewing on a future podcast one of our members who spent a lot of her time remotely managing her properties from Cape Town.
Chris Rodwell: [inaudible 00:06:05] absolutely and her husband John who navigated the world on a yacht and congratulations to John for doing that. Again, they had escaped the rat race just a few years before that through property. Learning how to invest and generate those recurring income streams to a point where John could go off and participate in around the world race and Bromwyn-
Kevin Whelan: She followed him, didn't she really?
Chris Rodwell: All around the world running their property business remotely.
Kevin Whelan: Yeah, I remember somebody else said to me I really want to do what Bromwyn has done. I want to be able to manage my property from a different country. In fact, that very client went off and spent a couple of weeks with Bromwyn, in Cape Town touring Stellenbosch and so on. It shows you how the power of connection that somebody inspired somebody else to do that. Mind you, it's a bit difficult to be thinking about that. As I said, if you're struggling to see yourself making ends meet rather than sailing around the world on a yacht. Why don't we talk about that? Why don't we help those people?
Chris Rodwell: Absolutely. Well, it comes down first and foremost, knowing your why, and really understanding the purpose of this journey of wealth building and what's driving you.
Kevin Whelan: Yes. And as I said, Chris, that the freedom of purpose is a key thing. If you have a purpose that's so powerful, you will absolutely never, ever be a drifter. Remember, we spoke about drifters the last time. It might be worth recounting my why. I think I touched on it in Episode One. But a little bit more detail so people can connect and see the importance that's meant to me, but also so they can think about it for themselves. It always cuts me up a little bit as I tell the story, but way back in the '80s when I was just graduated, I was an economist, and my father tragically died at the age of 46, he was a North Sea oil rig worker and he collapsed and died there. They couldn't really fly him off, so there was no hope for him.
Kevin Whelan: The tragic thing for me was I began to think about that. Obviously, you overcome anything when you're in your 20s was we were genetic peas in a pod, Chris. We looked the same, we walked the same, we talked the same. Everyone said, Kevin, John, you look like each other. In fact, that's my name, Kevin John. It was just a realization for me that when I'm in my 20s as a young economist at the time thinking wow, if I don't make old bones, if I don't get into my 50s how am I going to save enough money to give my wife and then the kids that I didn't have them but planned to have, now I've got three kids as you know, all in their 20s. I just didn't think I could save enough money.
Kevin Whelan: Luckily for me, I think, Chris, before I got too heavily involved in the rat race, I gave up the job on the 18th of August 1988, I still remember that day. That's the date that basically I quit the rat race.
Chris Rodwell: You escaped the rat race date.
Kevin Whelan: And made the decision never to trade time for money again. I knew I had to build things that I could own so I could create enough independence and pass on the assets that I was intending to build. It was helpful to have an economics degree. But as I said in the previous episode, Chris, I didn't have a mentor, I didn't have a guide and it took me quite a number of years to get to where I wanted to get to, and now my real passion is help people get there quickly.
Kevin Whelan: Bronwyn took I think, maybe four or five years. Another of our members and students have taken five to seven years. But either way it can be done in that period of time pretty much by anybody if they pay attention, they get the right education, the right support, make the right connections, they can definitely do that. It's really important to connect with your reason why because then you will just power through. That's a key thing.
Chris Rodwell: We talked about getting clear about really what's motivating you in terms of the freedom. Is it to live a financial level of life and afford the things that you really want to do. Is it to be able to go and live in another country and work remotely? Is it just to have more time to spend with those that you love and do the things that you want? And then defining really real strong catalyst as you often refer to it as your why is really that catalyst to propel you forwards.
Kevin Whelan: Yeah, because look, you look around the world is a place of confusion. There's much information out there. It's a place of a lack of capacity. People are busy, busy, busy, busy, busy, and they don't have any time. We hear that as you say, all the time. Something has to break through that. For me, the catalyst was the key. It was something that was a tragedy.
Kevin Whelan: Now, I'm not suggesting that someone needs a tragic aspect to their life, but they need a catalyst and sometimes it can be the inspiration from someone else like the person I mentioned who wanted to copy [inaudible 00:11:22] or I hope, Chris that we could be a catalyst in our writings and our teachings. In fact, didn't you start sowing the seeds of writing your book in Portugal?
Chris Rodwell: It was whilst I was in Portugal that I started writing my first book, Yes, Sack Your Boss, which is a free offering for anyone who's connected through Wealth Builders. So, head on over to wealthbuilders.co.uk/wealthtalk if you'd like a link to my book.
Kevin Whelan: Yeah, it's a good book. I think I wrote the foreword.
Chris Rodwell: Thank you. I think you might have done. So, Kevin, we've talked about almost the things in the past. things that might now push you forwards to look into the future and decide what it is that you want. This leads nicely onto knowing your number.
Kevin Whelan: Correct.
Chris Rodwell: So tell us, what are the five levels of wealth, and how does this tie into knowing your number?
Kevin Whelan: Okay. One of the things that you can do immediately as you begin to think about your own current position, if you like, taking the stock take. You can't work out where you're going until you know where you are, that's basic. Want to set up your sat nav or you want to Google Map anything, you have to know where you are now and where you want to go. So, where you want to take stock, and see where you are on any of these levels.
Kevin Whelan: There are five levels of wealth. What we were trying to do is help people sequentially move through the levels. There are different skills and tactics that you can deploy to move you from each level. For the beginning, most people start at level one, which is a place of insecurity.
Chris Rodwell: When you say most people, we're talking about the 95%-
Kevin Whelan: That's most. Most people, when we meet them, if I said to them how much income is coming from assets you own? You don't need to do anything to generate it, it's already done. That money's flowing into your life and is that enough for you to be completely secure that you could give up the day job if you had one, give up the business if you're not enjoying it, all your bills all your expenses to live a basic good quality life but just cover everything that you need to live. Is that automatically happening now or not? For the vast majority of people, the answer is no. They're in a place of financial insecurity.
Chris Rodwell: That's level one.
Kevin Whelan: That's level one. I want you to know that is not a problem, because there are many things you can do will come on to those, I guess, to teach people how they can move from a place of insecurity layer by layer, step by step to take care of the mortgage, to take care of the bills, to take care of the utilities and start to build assets that just take care of a little by little by little. To move them from a place of insecurity to security.
Kevin Whelan: Level two, Chris is security. Having enough money flowing in that you could pay your bills and if you wanted to sack your boss, you could sack your boss, and then you could live the life that you wanted to do and build even more wealth. Beyond that, because no longer would be the capacity taken from you, having to show up for 40, 50, 60 hours plus the unpaid commute, none of that would apply. You would have all the time that you needed to build your wealth once you're in a place of security. That's the key thing to get to. For most people, there's a number that they can identify. It doesn't matter what the number is. We're not judging the number, but on average, they'll give you a number that says look, if you taught it up, the things you must pay in life, your mortgage, your bills, and so on, what would that be? Would it be 2,000 a month? 3,000 a month? 5,000 a month? If you got three kids in private school, would it be 8,000 a month? What would it be?
Kevin Whelan: Once you know that number and have a reasonable sense of that, and it doesn't take long to get a sense of that, just look at your bank statement, you'll know what that number needs to be. That's the level that our first target is for everyone to move them from a place of insecurity to a place of security. So, from security, that's a launch pad, but you need just like the rocket, leaving Earth's gravity, you need that big push of energy to get you from insecurity to security.
Chris Rodwell: That removes any kind of fear and worry that with the economy the way it is, that you never really know if you walk into work tomorrow that that job will still be there. If you were to walk into work on Monday, and your boss said, "Sorry, but we don't need you anymore."
Kevin Whelan: We're shipping off because of Brexit, off to another country.
Chris Rodwell: Ask yourself now, what position would you be in? What kind of feelings would that produce? But this removes all of that.
Kevin Whelan: It would remove all of that. There's a skill and we'll share all of this on how to do that. That's moving from level one insecurity, to level two, security. Now, the level beyond that is independence. Now, independence is a higher level in security because security says well, you've got a basic level of life that you can cover your bills. But it doesn't mean it's a life without compromise. Independence is a life on your terms. Whether you turn left or right in airplane, whether you have two holiday years, two holidays a year or 10 holidays a year, whatever the life is that you want, then the money is flowing in to make that a reality. Irrespective of the state of the market, irrespective of interest rates, irrespective whether you got a job or not got a job, whether your business is working or not working, you are completely financially independent, and that's level three.
Kevin Whelan: That's the ideal level to be aiming for, of which you push through security into independence. So, knowing that number and that's usually a higher number, of course. Again, no judgment, doesn't matter what the number is, because if you want to live your life in a yacht and eat whatever you want to eat, never have any holidays, you could achieve that on a much lower figure than if you've got different aspirations. It's not for us to judge, everyone is unique and different and that's absolutely fine, and that's level of independence, level three.
Chris Rodwell: We're going to touch on level four, and how many people go from independence, well, go beyond independence.
Kevin Whelan: Well, the good thing about level four, which is abundance, financial abundance, is when you've got more money flowing into your life than you could possibly actually spend. People push through that automatically because you see the thing about the dynamic aspect of wealth building, is when you have your assets flowing, the money keeps flowing, and it keeps flowing. Like a river keeps flowing, you don't think I'm going to Niagara falls on holiday next month, will the water still be there? It keeps flowing.
Kevin Whelan: When you have this much security, that you know your money is going to keep flowing, it keeps getting bigger and bigger and bigger. Because what do you do if you're bringing in more money than you can spend as you're building more wealth? That wealth turns into abundance. That means instead of turning your attention to yourself and your family, you can turn this wider attention into whatever else is important in your life. Whether you're contributing to a cause or a church or a community or something that sits outside of your current purview. You're not looking at it today, but you feel like you'll be looking at it tomorrow and that's where abundance is at. Everybody who reaches independence powers through to abundance.
Chris Rodwell: If anyone's familiar with Tony Robbins, the six human needs, and as you rise up, it's about contribution and growth.
Kevin Whelan: Correct. That contribution is an automatic aspect of this. You can expect it to happen if you put the right foundation in place to push through, from insecurity, to security, from security to independence, from independence to abundance.
Chris Rodwell: How does it get any better than abundance?
Kevin Whelan: Well, this is how, instead of thinking then just about your life, if you imagine that the purpose of your life, which is certainly true for me, is to think beyond my current life. Is to think about my next generation and the generation after that, and the generation after that. You may recall, Chris, that one of the principles that we've established in the Wealth Builder Declaration of Independence, and I think we refer to that in Episode One.
Chris Rodwell: Yes.
Kevin Whelan: If you haven't downloaded that, please go download that, [inaudible 00:20:01] seven values. One of those is to accumulate wealth and pass that legacy on together with the principles and the wisdom with which you've accumulated it. I have a vision, Chris, I have a vision, right? I've created a concept with my own family trust fund where the symbols are in there but one of those is the family gets together and has a holiday all paid for by the trust. In 100 years’ time, when I'm no longer here, and me and my dad are connected again, the family are toasting the old bugger who created the principles and have taught the principles and the wisdom. The children haven't just spent the money, they have grown the wealth, they've taken that responsibility on, and they've accepted that as part of their life's challenge to expand that wealth and to keep the contributions going and to look up to the next generation and make sure they're looking after the money for the next, and they look up to the money for next, and that's-
Chris Rodwell: I suppose Newcastle have won the Premier League as [crosstalk 00:21:04]
Kevin Whelan: In 150 years, maybe.
Chris Rodwell: But I like the point there, legacy because ultimately that's really what it's all about.
Kevin Whelan: Yeah. When you come from a place of tragic early death, which is my father to a place of actually imagining that a life beyond my expectation is something that gives me pleasure to think about, that's a whole different experience.
Chris Rodwell: Well, thanks for explaining the five levels of welfare. We have all of this in downloadable formats don't we., and which are accessible again through heading over to the website and connecting in various means there. Getting clear about your why, certainly one of the first things that someone should do in the wealth building journey, and understanding really what's driving you. Is it a moving away from things? Something often you're not happy with? Your current circumstances, maybe you don't like your boss and things like that. But when you really connect with your why, I think you then shift your focus from what you don't like more towards what it is that you really want to achieve.
Kevin Whelan: Exactly. I think the push away is always at the beginning.
Chris Rodwell: The rocket ship, isn't it?
Kevin Whelan: That's right. It's the gravity that you're trying to overcome. Once you get there, it's all about your own purpose, and your own version of those six freedoms that we talked about earlier on. Of course, it's important as we get heady here and we're thinking about life in the clouds and an abundance and so on that we come down to the ground as well and maybe spend the next episode talking to people about the steps they can take if they're feeling like they're not quite getting there yet, they're still below basement. They're down, it's a bit darker there, they've got more month left at the end of their money, why don't we take an episode next time and try and help those so that they can get some light coming on in their life.
Chris Rodwell: Right. Some quick wins.
Kevin Whelan: Yeah. Some quick wins. I think there are a number of those, six of those, which we call DEBITS. You know me, I'm a teacher so I like to make things easy-
Chris Rodwell: And acronym-
Kevin Whelan: Always an acronym around me. But DEBITS is D-E-B-I-T-S. I think that will be a very useful discussion point for the next episode. So, why don't we head on and do that?
Chris Rodwell: Yeah, absolutely. If you're listening and you're not yet a member of the Wealth Builders Together, Facebook group, head over to wealthbuilders.co.uk/wealthtalk and there'll be a link for you to join right there. That's been a great episode today, Kevin. Thank you.
Kevin Whelan: Thank you.
Chris Rodwell: We're looking forward to next time.
Kevin Whelan: See you next time.